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Old 02-17-2010   #21
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Re: "Damning verdict on doctor who linked MMR and autism"

Quote:
Originally Said by cstoll View Post
Most of Ayoub's presentation does not involve the FOIA documents.
Not true at all. You must not have watched the entire presentation.

Quote:
The FOIA documents are about the "secret meeting" and only make up a small part of Ayoub's presentation.
Also untrue.

Quote:
When he does refer to those documents, he summarizes and gives *his interpretation* of the events. He's summarizing and taking a few quotes from a nearly 200-page document. When he does give actual quotations from the meeting, they are vague and out of context.
They could only be vague or misunderstood if you're unfamiliar with the topic.

Quote:
When they aren't vague and out of context, they don't have that "smoking gun" smell that he wants them to have. One of the more specific quotes comes from a doctor who has a "gut feeling" about the data.
Untrue. You obviously have not seen the documents obtained by the FOIA requests.

Quote:
Watch it again, keeping in mind Ayoub's tendency (as I showed in my above post) to read and make connections with a "conspiratorial" mindset.

That meeting he's talking about is old news. Robert Kennedy Jr. wrote about it years ago, did his own selective quoting, and was called out by numerous people about his misrepresentations. Ayoub seems to repeat a lot of Kennedy's claims.
No one said it was new. The presentation itself has been around for awhile.

Quote:
I'm not going to bother repeating the hard work done by others...
Are you referring to the links below? I hope not.

You believe magazines and blogs speak louder than hard documentation from the CDC, EPA, FDA, etc., all obtained by FOIA requests? If I suggested such a thing... well, we all know what would happen then ;.) Talk about believing anything...

And you didn't answer the question: "Did you view any of the hard documentation that supported Ayoub? Specifically that obtained via FOIA requests? It is available and weighs more than personal opinion."

If you didn't, and it appears not, why bother attempting to discredit something you have not seen for yourself?
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Old 02-18-2010   #22
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Re: "Damning verdict on doctor who linked MMR and autism"

Quote:
Originally Said by my.dragons.lady View Post
Are you referring to the links below? I hope not.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Said by mdl
You believe magazines and blogs speak louder than hard documentation from the CDC, EPA, FDA, etc., all obtained by FOIA requests? If I suggested such a thing... well, we all know what would happen then ;.) Talk about believing anything...
No, mdl, I don't believe magazines and blogs over hard documentation. People *do* things with those documents, and I make sure not to ignore the people. Ayoub was *interpreting* FOIA requested documents in certain ways. As I noted, his direct references to those documents were typical in their selective, vague "scary quotes." The bloggers at those links were doing a more careful reading, considering quotes in context.

It sounds like you didn't even check out the links. Or you didn't do so with an open mind, quickly dismissing them. The bloggers at those links are dealing with the documents referenced by Ayoub. So, it's not a matter of "believing anything," but being careful about *who* explains a source and *how* a source is interpreted and explained as much as *what* that source is.

Quote:
Originally Said by mdl
And you didn't answer the question: "Did you view any of the hard documentation that supported Ayoub? Specifically that obtained via FOIA requests? It is available and weighs more than personal opinion."
I have read the hard documentation that Ayoub referenced. I wasn't clear on that. I did, and I found Ayoub's reading to be selective and conspiratorial, and then found that Kennedy had done it before him. (And that Ayoub seemed to get a lot of his notes from Kennedy). I found that others had already dealt with that, so why repeat it? That's what I meant by "I'm not going to bother repeating the hard work done by others." Hence, the links.

I'm curious: Why did you link to Ayoub, a man who brings in black helicopters and occult numerology and strained logic? Why not just link to the hard documents?
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Old 02-20-2010   #23
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Re: "Damning verdict on doctor who linked MMR and autism"

MDL, you really shouldn't argue with cstoll. He pulls words out of his ass or copies and pastes text from other websites.
If you do confront him with something that disproves him, he completely ignores it and often makes the assertion that you made a personal attack against him.
Just be glad he's not a moderator. I bet he'd totally edit posts to win arguments.
I hope you're taking screen shots of your original posts, just in case. Again, be glad he's no mod. I am certain cstoll would threaten to ban you if you ever posted them.
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Old 02-20-2010   #24
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Re: "Damning verdict on doctor who linked MMR and autism"

My daughter babysits a 11 year girl that is Autistic, and tho her family has accepted it, I'm sure they would like to know "why" she is this way and if there was some outside cause, can it be prevented from other children ending up the same way. I know recently they have been working harder with these children and making some headway. It would be nice to know that there is a cure or tool that could reverse the effects.
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Old 02-21-2010   #25
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Re: "Damning verdict on doctor who linked MMR and autism"

Quote:
Originally Said by Bamcubz View Post
My daughter babysits a 11 year girl that is Autistic, and tho her family has accepted it, I'm sure they would like to know "why" she is this way and if there was some outside cause, can it be prevented from other children ending up the same way. I know recently they have been working harder with these children and making some headway. It would be nice to know that there is a cure or tool that could reverse the effects.
That's sad. I have a cousin who was just diagnosed, and it's pretty obvious when you see it.

Some guy claimed to have cured his son of autism through chelation therapy, which is an unproven and dangerous way of dealing with autism.

With more traditional types of therapy, some kids develop better than expected.
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Last edited by cstoll; 02-22-2010 at 10:47 AM. Reason: clarification. that's why. so...there.
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