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Old 04-29-2009   #21
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

I don't know; I don't care.
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Old 04-29-2009   #22
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

Quote:
Originally Said by Kali View Post
Granted we're not back to moderating just yet, so you have every right to continue breaking rules or whatever it is you want to do, but could I please ask as a favour that everyone treat this thread seriously - we really do need to get some feedback from this experiment so that the last month wasn't all for waste. Have your fun elsewhere as much as you like, there's plenty of places to do it and that's totally fine - but if we could try and make something of this thread, I'd really appreciate it.
How serious do you want non-moderators to take this experiment? The better moderators didn't need this and it's silly to take farcical moderating seriously. Seriously ^;^ But, just for grins:

Short version: no moderation except for spammers is a vast improvement.

Long version:
  • Non-moderators work most things out and have a better chance to self-police without certain moderators instigating, fueling fires and abusing privileges.
  • There are a couple of moderators who directly, in PMs with me, shifted blame toward another moderator. That is another reason I avoid PMs with most here including moderators. Moderators who participate in backstabbing and infighting should not be moderators.
  • PMs contribute grotesquely to misunderstandings, unfounded rumors and abuse of moderator privileges. There's also the fact that certain moderators say use PMs, don't respond to candid discussion, yet call that communication or some unrecognizable (to me) form of problem resolution.
  • Mods should enforce forum rules as intended, evenly, equally and objectively.
  • Mods should use privileges appropriately, not retaliate like the immature children they accuse others of being when complaints are made about poor moderation.
  • Taking sides like third graders is weird and UNmoderator-like.
  • More moderators should be active in creating threads and participating in discussion. At least one active mod per forum would more evenly distribute the real responsibility of being aware of content and addressing problems with spammers, derailing of 'purposeful and meaningful threads', or sexual predators.
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* Use a title that describes the content of your thread.
* Please only create purposeful and meaningful threads.
* Make sure you create threads in the correct forum.

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* No off-topic posts or two-party debates. Use private messages!
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  • Leave moderation to those who have clearly and transparently demonstrated balanced moderating. If it's such an unbearable chore to enforce a few rules objectively, give it up. Why torture yourselves?
  • "Express approval of other mods" gets lost in poor moderator behavior. Word gets around.
  • The forum rules do not encourage abuse or tolerance of abuse, so responding in kind should be expected, not punished. Warnings and temporary banning would be unnecessary if non-moderators could self-police without interference.
  • Advising and expecting people to ignore or tolerate abuse gives chronic abusers an entire forum of real people to torment and that is in no way supported by the forum rules.
  • Abuse is not a fact, a disagreement or honesty.
  • Banning should be reserved for spammers or people who would jeopardize the integrity of this online community with commentary that puts those responsible for this site at risk for legal recourse. Pedophiles and their groupies, for example.
This site has developed into a comparatively healthy online community over the years, but poor moderating is every bit as effective as conniving drama queens when it comes to chasing good people away.
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Old 04-30-2009   #23
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

I think it was quite enjoyable for the time being. For about the first week, I had no idea what was going on, and had I not read the Experiment thread I wouldn't have even noticed.

After finding out what was going on I kinda became an ass, not out of seriousness or hatred/dislike to any member, but for the laughs. If any one could actually take an in depth reading of my reputation, you'll see a lot of the comments are for making someone laugh, and it feels pretty good knowing someone got a kick out of my joke, witty observation, or just random answer/rant to a topic (even though it's just on the internet, I like to consider each and everyone of you my friend in some shape or form). So I took things up a notch with "asshole humor" which in essence is a nasty degrading form of humor.

As you can see from two of my threads that didn't go over very well. Especially with Jasmine, and a few other members, and for that I do apologize if I haven't already. So after the whole Jasmine giving me negative reputation for every post I had ever made, I went into this "I don't give a shit, whatever it's the internet" kind of phase. During this phase of the experiment, I began just spamming, ranting, and derailing on any thread I could, which was what a lot of members were kind of doing through the experiment. That I observed went on for about a week.

After things cooled down a bit I went back to being the normal acting member I was. I wasn't having fun acting like an asshole, because in reality that's not who I am. As I returned to being a normal functioning member I witnessed a few battles ensued between others. Two of the memorable ones I recall were: PCP v. MDL (pre-my asshole phase) and Sytrohs v. psychoDiablo (post my asshole phase). These died down in a decent amount of time, and pretty much with about a week and a half left in April things became "normal" again.

As for witnessing peoples true colors, I think some shone through, but I think most of it was "Oh no mods, I'm gonna do what I please". Things have been pretty calm the past few days, so it's nice to see that everyone got whatever they needed to get out of their systems.

Should moderation be lightened, yes I think it should, to a point. I think if someone says something of validity and can back up the claim in an adult manner, even if someone disagrees or is offended by it, they shouldn't be censored by the mods for those claims. As for flaming, baiting, flame-baiting, spamming, and whatnot, mods should still step in to take care of the problem. As for anything else on this forum, I see no real need for moderation, except for the Debate section where things get a little heated sometimes.
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Old 04-30-2009   #24
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

Ah c'mon. Interesting debates easily and often become heated. That's part of the charge :.) The only time moderating is warranted is when it violates sensible, practical rules. Ad hominem attacks are unproductive. Abusing moderator privileges is unproductive. Moderators trying to make people respond to nonsense is absurdly unproductive.

People who post information for others to read, but respond to posts without reading them thoroughly for comprehension is so lame and a waste of time. That alone is responsible for most of the derailing.

Maybe too few here are not truly aware of what transpires in good debate or simply don't care.
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Old 04-30-2009   #25
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

Quote:
Originally Said by my.dragons.lady View Post
Ah c'mon. Interesting debates easily and often become heated. That's part of the charge :.) The only time moderating is warranted is when it violates sensible, practical rules. Ad hominem attacks are unproductive. Abusing moderator privileges is unproductive. Moderators trying to make people respond to nonsense is absurdly unproductive.

People who post information for others to read, but respond to posts without reading them thoroughly for comprehension is so lame and a waste of time. That alone is responsible for most of the derailing.

Maybe too few here are not truly aware of what transpires in good debate or simply don't care.
I'm not saying debates shouldn't become heated, just some people begin thinking more with their emotions than coming up with rational responses and just flip out in anger and flame someone else.

And yes I agree with you on the whole members don't read the initial post of a debate, I'm not gonna lie I'm guilty of it myself. A lot of us just see a title in the debate forum that interests us and we just rant about what we know about the topic and prove we're right and someone else is wrong.
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Old 04-30-2009   #26
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

Quote:
Originally Said by Mudfucka
Oh god, people showed their "true colors"? Like people were just HIDING until the mods left, then they took the opportunity to really be themselves and reveal what true monsters they are?
lol!



so after this month ends, does that mean we have to go back to EC crying because everyone is playing the forums wrong? That's why everyone got banned. And what's this I hear about him hacking up everyoen's facebooks and shit, stealing their passwords from here? what
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Old 04-30-2009   #27
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

Interesting. Had not heard that yet. Back to me though, true colors, monsters and stuff.

I are BIG monster! So shut your face. Walking around with funny ears and that wiggly nose. Think you're cute, huh?

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Old 04-30-2009   #28
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

ima get that pet for Foxy.
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I wouldn't say I'm psycho only because I'm able to handle it.
Now learn patience

To chill is to be chillin.
Chillin is cooperating with your surroundings, unknowing'st of what everything is capable of; and all the while, as it happens and after, to accept without any thought of good or bad, but mainly, just enjoying rather deeply, the moment you had to sit and think. (Not thinking.)

|-Mr.MCR-|

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Old 04-30-2009   #29
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

^ and I'll steal it.
I want a turtle..
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Old 04-30-2009   #30
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

Alright, after taking a look at what everyone had to say here, the following is my opinion and is subject to disagreement, flaming, constructive criticism, edition, and approval.
  • I truly believe that there should be at least one active moderator per forum to moderate the forum more effectively.
  • If less moderation is going to be decided upon completion of this experiment, then I truly believe a "SPAM" forum should be added to the website. All threads that qualify as spam can be moved or posted there. That way users who chose to post off topic or unimportant threads can do it without facing thread closures and arguments that could possibly form because of said closures.
  • Moderators should be subject to evaluation. It seems there is a "once a mod, always a mod" system here. Some forum members don't believe some moderators are acting "modly" lately. This itself has caused a lot of problems. I believe that if there is grounds to such accusations and proof, a mod should be subject to punishment just as a regular member is when they break the rules. I am thinking, temporary suspension of mod duties or privileges, etc.
  • Perhaps another admin could join forces with Weasel if he wants? I mean absolutely no disrespect or disapproval to our weasely one. I just mean to suggest he have someone to help him with admin duties? I am sure after so many years of being the only admin, you must be getting tired...I've seen other forums do this and it seems to work very well....
  • Perhaps the addition of one or two new mods would be good? Although we have a lot of mods, with time differences, and people's busy lives, there are still not very many online at the same time, which leaves the forum vulnerable to spamming and flame wars sometimes. I am sure that having a few more moderators around would prove to be a blessing. They would be able to stop flame wars from getting out of hand which would result in less bans and of course less hate between mods and members regarding said bans. If more mods were around to warn members...say to each party "look this is getting out of hand, either take this to PM or stop the argument all together. Further posts with flaming regarding this subject will be edited or if this argument continues they way it is going, it may result in a ban," then a lot of problems would be stopped before they get out of hand. A few responsible users who are online often and promise to continue to be online often, would be a great addition to the team, I am sure.
  • Moderators who are not as active as they used to be and wish to become a regular member should be able to do so...I am not sure if this is already something done so I am just mentioning it as a possibility...
Those are my suggestions for now...I may add more later.
Basically I believe the moderating here is absolutely fine. I also believe that those who have the most problems with the moderation are those who have been on the receiving end of punishment before. I can't imagine why they would want less moderation.
I do believe however, a few more mods may be needed to stop problems before they start.
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Old 04-30-2009   #31
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

I'm hacking into people's Facebooks? That's news to me.
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Old 04-30-2009   #32
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

No, i dont think it was you. I was just ranting at that point and thought I'd add you into it lol
but rest assured it was some other asshole lol
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Now learn patience

To chill is to be chillin.
Chillin is cooperating with your surroundings, unknowing'st of what everything is capable of; and all the while, as it happens and after, to accept without any thought of good or bad, but mainly, just enjoying rather deeply, the moment you had to sit and think. (Not thinking.)

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Old 04-30-2009   #33
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

The moderators will leave the bannings up to the people from now on.
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I wouldn't say I'm psycho only because I'm able to handle it.
Now learn patience

To chill is to be chillin.
Chillin is cooperating with your surroundings, unknowing'st of what everything is capable of; and all the while, as it happens and after, to accept without any thought of good or bad, but mainly, just enjoying rather deeply, the moment you had to sit and think. (Not thinking.)

|-Mr.MCR-|

Will you write
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Will you enjoy
Life when I am gone?
You will.
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"I have lived life as horrible as it was, and as beautiful as it has become."
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Old 04-30-2009   #34
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

We really don't need mods other than to delete the occasional spam and ban the spammers.
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Old 04-30-2009   #35
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

Quote:
Originally Said by pittielynn View Post
Alright, after taking a look at what everyone had to say here, the following is my opinion and is subject to disagreement, flaming, constructive criticism, edition, and approval.
  • I truly believe that there should be at least one active moderator per forum to moderate the forum more effectively.
I think the right people were made mods when Weasel added on more mods; we all keep each other in balance, nothing is done without consultation with other mods (unless it's spam). We all make a big effort to be unbiased and when we can't, we step away and let other people handle the people/person/situation from then on...and believe me, this has happened and does happen. We all make the effort to not dislike anyone on the forum but sometimes you just shouldn't make decisions about someone and we all recognize that about ourselves.

I've also noticed that usually when no mods are on is when no one else is on either.

Quote:
  • If less moderation is going to be decided upon completion of this experiment, then I truly believe a "SPAM" forum should be added to the website. All threads that qualify as spam can be moved or posted there. That way users who chose to post off topic or unimportant threads can do it without facing thread closures and arguments that could possibly form because of said closures.
Threads That Never End is a forum in which none of the posts count toward anyone's post count and you don't get points for posts; that's basically a spam forum. That is a good idea, though, we could start just moving those flame wars to the TTNE forum. Provided, of course, that the consensus here would be to stop stepping in.

Quote:
  • Moderators should be subject to evaluation. It seems there is a "once a mod, always a mod" system here. Some forum members don't believe some moderators are acting "modly" lately. This itself has caused a lot of problems. I believe that if there is grounds to such accusations and proof, a mod should be subject to punishment just as a regular member is when they break the rules. I am thinking, temporary suspension of mod duties or privileges, etc.
You can't see it but we DO self moderate quite a bit. We talk in the mod forum constantly. And we have a policy that no one is to do anything without talking to others first, unless it's a spammer. My personal philosophy is never to ban a regular member without the approval of at least four active mods.

Quote:
  • Perhaps another admin could join forces with Weasel if he wants? I mean absolutely no disrespect or disapproval to our weasely one. I just mean to suggest he have someone to help him with admin duties? I am sure after so many years of being the only admin, you must be getting tired...I've seen other forums do this and it seems to work very well....
Madre is an admin.

Quote:
Perhaps the addition of one or two new mods would be good? Although we have a lot of mods, with time differences, and people's busy lives, there are still not very many online at the same time, which leaves the forum vulnerable to spamming and flame wars sometimes. I am sure that having a few more moderators around would prove to be a blessing. They would be able to stop flame wars from getting out of hand which would result in less bans and of course less hate between mods and members regarding said bans. If more mods were around to warn members...say to each party "look this is getting out of hand, either take this to PM or stop the argument all together. Further posts with flaming regarding this subject will be edited or if this argument continues they way it is going, it may result in a ban," then a lot of problems would be stopped before they get out of hand. A few responsible users who are online often and promise to continue to be online often, would be a great addition to the team, I am sure.
Well, foxy, ZP, Madre, able, EC, Narnar, Kali, and I are on here every single day, sometimes late into the night. Hamana is also on frequently too. Most of us have each other on buddy lists et cetera so that we can talk pretty readily about what goes on and we also PM quite a bit. In the time I've been a mod, I think there has only ever been one time that something has happened and I've been the only mod online at all; and I just kinda waited around for another mod to get on and spammed their PM boxes.
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Last edited by Jenn and tonic; 04-30-2009 at 05:55 PM. Reason: misspelling.
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Old 04-30-2009   #36
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

You are made for four letter fame.
Regret is part of your name.
There's something you couldn't tell.
It's what you wanted to feel.
It's what you're dying to feel.

Remember. This is no game.
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Old 04-30-2009   #37
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

So much self-delusion, so little time to set it straight
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Old 04-30-2009   #38
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

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Originally Said by Jenn and tonic View Post
Madre is an admin.
No she's not. Weasel is the only admin.

View Forum Leaders.
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Old 04-30-2009   #39
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

I could swear that Weasel said he made her an admin in that same thread where he said we were made mods.

Hmm, hmm hmm hmm. *cues mystery music*
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Old 04-30-2009   #40
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Re: The Experiment - The Result

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Originally Said by Jenn and tonic View Post
[/list]I think the right people were made mods when Weasel added on more mods; we all keep each other in balance, nothing is done without consultation with other mods (unless it's spam). We all make a big effort to be unbiased and when we can't, we step away and let other people handle the people/person/situation from then on...and believe me, this has happened and does happen. We all make the effort to not dislike anyone on the forum but sometimes you just shouldn't make decisions about someone and we all recognize that about ourselves.

I've also noticed that usually when no mods are on is when no one else is on either.
If there was an effective balance why does this thread exist?


Quote:
[/list]Threads That Never End is a forum in which none of the posts count toward anyone's post count and you don't get points for posts; that's basically a spam forum. That is a good idea, though, we could start just moving those flame wars to the TTNE forum. Provided, of course, that the consensus here would be to stop stepping in.
The problem with that would be who decides what a flame war is or is not. Not much balance there to date.


Quote:
[/list]You can't see it but we DO self moderate quite a bit. We talk in the mod forum constantly. And we have a policy that no one is to do anything without talking to others first, unless it's a spammer. My personal philosophy is never to ban a regular member without the approval of at least four active mods.
Talking in the mod forum constantly and gossiping in PMs does not constitute moderating or self-moderation, particularly when some of the mods admit they haven't had time to follow events. Less button pushing and hiding in PMs would help.

Transparency, in plainer words, would go a long way toward problem resolution and minimal moderation. Pretending to moderate just does not get the job done.


Quote:
[/list]Madre is an admin.
..... we already know that's incorrect.


Quote:
Well, foxy, ZP, Madre, able, EC, Narnar, Kali, and I are on here every single day, sometimes late into the night. Hamana is also on frequently too. Most of us have each other on buddy lists et cetera so that we can talk pretty readily about what goes on and we also PM quite a bit. In the time I've been a mod, I think there has only ever been one time that something has happened and I've been the only mod online at all; and I just kinda waited around for another mod to get on and spammed their PM boxes.
If that was sufficient this thread wouldn't exist.
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"Let food be your medicine and medicine be your food." ~~ Hippocrates

"Trust, but verify." ~~ Damon Runyon * Said to me by Andy Stephenson of Hacking Democracy, in memory of and one account. Miss you much, Andy.
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