Almost Smart  

Go Back   Almost Smart > AlmostSmartism > Front Page

Front Page The threads which appears on the front page. Add your comments or create your own front page threads.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-15-2004   #1
Deuxmakina
Well Known Member
 
Deuxmakina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Somewhere between Earth and Heaven
Posts: 277
Rep Power: 31
Deuxmakina is a splendid one to beholdDeuxmakina is a splendid one to beholdDeuxmakina is a splendid one to beholdDeuxmakina is a splendid one to beholdDeuxmakina is a splendid one to beholdDeuxmakina is a splendid one to beholdDeuxmakina is a splendid one to behold
Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
One of World's Leading Atheists Now Believes in God, More or Less, Based on Scientific Evidence

The Associated Press

NEW YORK Dec 9, 2004 — A British philosophy professor who has been a leading champion of atheism for more than a half-century has changed his mind. He now believes in God more or less based on scientific evidence, and says so on a video released Thursday.

At age 81, after decades of insisting belief is a mistake, Antony Flew has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.

Flew said he's best labeled a deist like Thomas Jefferson, whose God was not actively involved in people's lives.

"I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins," he said. "It could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose."

Flew first made his mark with the 1950 article "Theology and Falsification," based on a paper for the Socratic Club, a weekly Oxford religious forum led by writer and Christian thinker C.S. Lewis.

Over the years, Flew proclaimed the lack of evidence for God while teaching at Oxford, Aberdeen, Keele, and Reading universities in Britain, in visits to numerous U.S. and Canadian campuses and in books, articles, lectures and debates.

There was no one moment of change but a gradual conclusion over recent months for Flew, a spry man who still does not believe in an afterlife.

Yet biologists' investigation of DNA "has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved," Flew says in the new video, "Has Science Discovered God?"

The video draws from a New York discussion last May organized by author Roy Abraham Varghese's Institute for Metascientific Research in Garland, Texas. Participants were Flew; Varghese; Israeli physicist Gerald Schroeder, an Orthodox Jew; and Roman Catholic philosopher John Haldane of Scotland's University of St. Andrews.

The first hint of Flew's turn was a letter to the August-September issue of Britain's Philosophy Now magazine. "It has become inordinately difficult even to begin to think about constructing a naturalistic theory of the evolution of that first reproducing organism," he wrote.

The letter commended arguments in Schroeder's "The Hidden Face of God" and "The Wonder of the World" by Varghese, an Eastern Rite Catholic layman.

This week, Flew finished writing the first formal account of his new outlook for the introduction to a new edition of his "God and Philosophy," scheduled for release next year by Prometheus Press.

Prometheus specializes in skeptical thought, but if his belief upsets people, well "that's too bad," Flew said. "My whole life has been guided by the principle of Plato's Socrates: Follow the evidence, wherever it leads."

Last week, Richard Carrier, a writer and Columbia University graduate student, posted new material based on correspondence with Flew on the atheistic www.infidels.org Web page. Carrier assured atheists that Flew accepts only a "minimal God" and believes in no afterlife.

Flew's "name and stature are big. Whenever you hear people talk about atheists, Flew always comes up," Carrier said. Still, when it comes to Flew's reversal, "apart from curiosity, I don't think it's like a big deal."

Flew told The Associated Press his current ideas have some similarity with American "intelligent design" theorists, who see evidence for a guiding force in the construction of the universe. He accepts Darwinian evolution but doubts it can explain the ultimate origins of life.

A Methodist minister's son, Flew became an atheist at 15.

Early in his career, he argued that no conceivable events could constitute proof against God for believers, so skeptics were right to wonder whether the concept of God meant anything at all.

Another landmark was his 1984 "The Presumption of Atheism," playing off the presumption of innocence in criminal law. Flew said the debate over God must begin by presuming atheism, putting the burden of proof on those arguing that God exists.


(What do you think?)
__________________
Everything begins with a choice.
Deuxmakina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2004   #2
kyle
Lawl ^^
 
kyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ft. Wayne IN
Age: 31
Posts: 3,360
Rep Power: 52
kyle has a reputation beyond reputekyle has a reputation beyond reputekyle has a reputation beyond reputekyle has a reputation beyond reputekyle has a reputation beyond reputekyle has a reputation beyond reputekyle has a reputation beyond reputekyle has a reputation beyond reputekyle has a reputation beyond reputekyle has a reputation beyond reputekyle has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to kyle Send a message via MSN to kyle Send a message via Yahoo to kyle Send a message via Skype™ to kyle
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

hes 81, hes probly lost it.
__________________
kyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2004   #3
poopy
The ?mægå Mån
 
poopy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: i am from boston. stranded away from home.
Age: 36
Posts: 2,800
Rep Power: 45
poopy has a reputation beyond reputepoopy has a reputation beyond reputepoopy has a reputation beyond reputepoopy has a reputation beyond reputepoopy has a reputation beyond reputepoopy has a reputation beyond reputepoopy has a reputation beyond reputepoopy has a reputation beyond reputepoopy has a reputation beyond reputepoopy has a reputation beyond reputepoopy has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to poopy
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

i imagine tootles from the movie hook

"i've lost my marbles...."
__________________
BEWARE: When eating snacks remember that the fruit roll-up factory feels the need to endanger our lives with a potentially suffocatingly thin transluscent plastic. I am outraged and currently on my way out the door to start a petition for a boycott of any and all fruit roll-up snacks. Please send me a message or post your name, telephone number, and address, and some one will be by to get your signature. Thank You
poopy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2004   #4
severelybored
is wobbies mum-Tyne
 
severelybored's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: dantes inferno
Posts: 184
Rep Power: 28
severelybored is a jewel in the roughseverelybored is a jewel in the roughseverelybored is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via AIM to severelybored
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

meh, im with kyle. hes lost it.
__________________
Get Your Hellin', Damnin' Ass, Back Into That Bitchin' Damn Room!


The lunatic is in my head.
The lunatic is in my head
You raise the blade, you make the change
You re-arrange me 'til I'm sane.
You lock the door
And throw away the key
There's someone in my head but it's not me.

And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
You shout and no one seems to hear.
And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon.
severelybored is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2004   #5
Jenn and tonic
"maaaaagic!"
 
Jenn and tonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 33
Posts: 5,965
Rep Power: 119
Jenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Jenn and tonic
Goes to show you can always change your ideas and beliefs.

You know, Einstein did the same thing. He said that upon thought, there could be no way there wasn't a god.
__________________
When all government, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the Center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated. – Thomas Jefferson
Jenn and tonic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2004   #6
HolokittyNX
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Southern California, but I might move back to Earth one day.
Age: 35
Posts: 952
Rep Power: 0
HolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

Einstein described his totally figurative god in the same interview where he called himself an Atheist.
HolokittyNX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2004   #7
psychoDiablo
Thx for the memories
 
psychoDiablo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 15,971
Rep Power: 199
psychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to psychoDiablo Send a message via Yahoo to psychoDiablo
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

Quote:
Originally Said by HolokittyNX
Einstein described his totally figurative god in the same interview where he called himself an Atheist.
ha. what?
where is this?

You can believe whatever you want to believe. Believe it or else.


Anything.
__________________
I wouldn't say I'm psycho only because I'm able to handle it.
Now learn patience

To chill is to be chillin.
Chillin is cooperating with your surroundings, unknowing'st of what everything is capable of; and all the while, as it happens and after, to accept without any thought of good or bad, but mainly, just enjoying rather deeply, the moment you had to sit and think. (Not thinking.)

|-Mr.MCR-|

Will you write
Will you love
Will you enjoy
Life when I am gone?
You will.
by Angelina

"I have lived life as horrible as it was, and as beautiful as it has become."
psychoDiablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2004   #8
Jenn and tonic
"maaaaagic!"
 
Jenn and tonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 33
Posts: 5,965
Rep Power: 119
Jenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Jenn and tonic
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

Quote:
Originally Said by HolokittyNX
Einstein described his totally figurative god in the same interview where he called himself an Atheist.
Maybe that's what he called himself, but clearly he did not think this way:

Einstein declared that he believed in “Spinoza’s god”, i.e. in a god that is identical with the universe, and who does not thus interfere from outside in its working. “The man who is thoroughly convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation,” says Einstein, “cannot for a moment entertain the idea of a being who interferes in the course of events.”1
quoted by Hans Kung, Does God Exist? Vantage Books, 1981, p. 629

He believed in a God, but that this god did not interfere with what goes on.

Another quote and source:

Einstein was often asked, "Do you believe in God?", to which he sometimes replied "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the harmony of all being". 24 "By God", Spinoza wrote at the very beginning of his Ethica, "I mean a being absolutely infinite-that is, a substance consisting in infinite attributes, of which each expresses eternal and infinite essentiality". Proposition XV of the Ethica stated: "Whatever is, is in God, and without God nothing can be, or be conceived." 25
.....
(upon being asked directly if he [Einstein] believed in the God of Spinoza) I can't answer with a simple yes or no. I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see a universe marvellously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's pantheism, but admire even more his contributions to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and the body as one, not two separate things. 26

http://www.ctinquiry.org/publication...1/torrance.htm
__________________
When all government, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the Center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated. – Thomas Jefferson
Jenn and tonic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2004   #9
HolokittyNX
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Southern California, but I might move back to Earth one day.
Age: 35
Posts: 952
Rep Power: 0
HolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

In what sense should Spinoza's god even be called a god? If it's identical with the universe, then there's nothing at all supernatural about it. Which is why quite a few people consider Spinoza an Atheist.

“I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist. Your counter-arguments seem to me very correct and could hardly be better formulated. It is always misleading to use anthropomorphical concepts in dealing with things outside the human sphere—childish analogies. We have to admire in humility the beautiful harmony of the structure of this world as far—as we can grasp it. And that is all.”
--Albert Einstein, to Guy H. Raner Jr., July 2, 1945, responding to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein to convert from atheism; from Michael R. Gilmore, "Einstein's God: Just What Did Einstein Believe About God?," Skeptic, 1997, 5(2):62.

"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature."
-- Albert Einstein, The World as I See It

A god with no will? How is that a god in anything but a totally poetic sense?
HolokittyNX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2004   #10
Jenn and tonic
"maaaaagic!"
 
Jenn and tonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 33
Posts: 5,965
Rep Power: 119
Jenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Jenn and tonic
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

Spinoza did not deny the existence of God, he just did not believe in the Judeo-Christian god that interferes with others' lives. He believed god as a divine being that does not define a 'right' or 'wrong' but merely is.

Still more quotes from Einstein:

My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior Spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. The deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning Power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.

Certain it is that a conviction, akin to religious feeling, of the rationality and intelligibility of the world lies behind all scientific work of a higher order. The firm belief, which is bound up with deep feeling, in a superior mind revealing himself in the world of experience, represents my conception of God, which may, therefore be described in common parlance as `pantheistic' (Spinoza).

(from my source listed above)
__________________
When all government, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the Center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated. – Thomas Jefferson

Last edited by Jenn and tonic; 12-16-2004 at 11:53 AM.
Jenn and tonic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2004   #11
HolokittyNX
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Southern California, but I might move back to Earth one day.
Age: 35
Posts: 952
Rep Power: 0
HolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

In other words neither Einstein nor Spinoza used the term 'god' in any meaningful way. How is a mind a mind if it doesn't make decisions?
HolokittyNX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2004   #12
Jenn and tonic
"maaaaagic!"
 
Jenn and tonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 33
Posts: 5,965
Rep Power: 119
Jenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond reputeJenn and tonic has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Jenn and tonic
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

No...that is not what I or the quotes said. Are you reading them?

Quote:
The firm belief, which is bound up with deep feeling, in a superior mind revealing himself in the world of experience, represents my conception of God, which may, therefore be described in common parlance as `pantheistic'
Quote:
My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior Spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds.
In no way do Einstein or Spinoza say that god does not have a mind. They say that it does not interfere with nature and may BE nature...that our minds cannot wrap around what this god is and does.
__________________
When all government, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the Center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated. – Thomas Jefferson
Jenn and tonic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2004   #13
HolokittyNX
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Southern California, but I might move back to Earth one day.
Age: 35
Posts: 952
Rep Power: 0
HolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves..."
-- Albert Einstein, The World as I See It

To state that you think a being has a mind of a sort you can't describe except 'not like us' is talking out of one's ass. Which Einstein and Spinoza were (sorry, Al - you shoulda stuck to math). Every major god concept (including those being defended with the initial Einstein reference) is described in human terms. Love, wrath, will, rules and morality, etc. Einstein's god isn't some lofty concept we're having trouble understanding. It's simply a meaningless one.

Gods:

1.) Are supernatural. Outside of nature, not part of it. The Spinozan model isn't.
2.) Make decisions. Again, not Spinoza's. If something doesn't have a will of the sort we understand, then we're not qualified to say it has one of any sort. We can't ascribe something attributes we can't define. An undefined concept does not exist as a concept except, like Spinoza's, rhetorically. If this attribute isn't a will of the sort we understand, then it's not a will because we created the term 'will' to describe an aspect of ourselves.
3.) Are sentient. No, a being with intelligence and no other aspects of the human mind (upon which the term "mind" is based) does not have a mind. My computer has intelligence, but not a mind. People give a damn about the god concept because they can relate to it. The God of the Bible or Islam makes decisions. People relate to that because they make decisions. Most gods love and hate. People understand that because they love and hate too. Gods are created in the image of humanity, including those whose worshippers say they aren't.
4.) Are relevant because they interfere in human affairs. This is the reason the god concept was created - to worship, to appease, to interact with, to rub elbows with in Heaven or Valhalla or wherever.
5.) Exist in the literal sense, not the metaphorical. Nothing in Einstein's or Spinoza's writings points to something that actually has effects or does anything at all. Simply another name for the laws of physics.

What does one do with a god concept that makes no choices, totally ignores you, and is subject to nature? And what difference is there between Spinoza's bullshit and plainly stated Atheism? His god has none of the attributes most people attribute to their gods. Acknowledging it serves no purpose, since it doesn't care and what knowledge there is to be gained about it is gained by ordinary scientific inquiry (according to both Spinoza and Einstein). And Spinoza contradicts himself further. He says his god doesn't interfere in human affairs, but it does if it's composed of the laws of physics to which we're subject.

He doesn't agree with anyone who actually cares that an Atheist now believes in something he calls a god, since that god is absolutely nothing like the god of any actual religions and his belief doesn't lead to any conclusion or moral code.

And he disagrees with Atheism in only one sense - he redefines the term god to basically mean 'the laws of physics.' Sure, those exist and I know it. But Spinoza takes that and then says that something else exists, but he can't describe it. In other words, this god isn't EVEN a figment of his imagination. Just a word he refuses to define. He says it exists, but provides no description of it whatsoever. It's like saying one believes in widgets and then refusing to say what a widget is. In the end you haven't said anything at all. Like 'widget,' the term 'god' as Spinoza uses it doesn't mean anything. He might as well take the word 'god' out and leave a blank space. Spinoza was an Atheist who foolishly used the word 'god' because it sounded nice and he didn't want to call himself an Atheist.

If Spinoza's right, then...what? Absolutely nothing changes for me, since the only difference between my beliefs and his is a rhetorical one. Many scientific pantheists consider their philosophy a form of Atheism, and not once have I heard anything from them that I found at odds with Atheism except the word 'god.' I expect oblivion when I die, and according to Spinoza's model will get just that. I expect all of the consequences for my actions to be Earthly, and according to his model will get just that. I expect everything physical that happens to be caused by laws of physics, and according to his model will get just that. I can worship Satan and be a mass murderer and steal from people and with sufficient discretion can expect to truly get away with it, and according to Spinoza that's exactly what will happen. I can expect Hitler and Mother Theresa to meet the exact same fate upon death (I wish it were otherwise, but it's not), and according to Spinoza that's what will happen.

Does that sound like a universe with a God to you? Or to most people who believe in a supreme being? What similarity is there between Spinoza's god concept and that implied by the opening article's title (the one that appeals to theists)? Why do either of us give a shit about him? He doesn't agree in any useful sense with 99% of people who believe in a god, and his philosophies are basically mine with the word 'god' thrown in in a way that makes me consider him too spineless and pointlessly self-contradictory to even pay further attention to.

Meanwhile the vast majority of people who believe in a god are wasting their time with their god concepts, according to Spinoza. You quote him and Einstein's references to a 'god' that isn't one in any way actual theists can use because...? If you want to present his ideas as something to emulate, go ahead. In my eyes it'll just make you an Atheist who likes the word 'god.'

Last edited by HolokittyNX; 12-16-2004 at 06:25 PM.
HolokittyNX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2004   #14
psychoDiablo
Thx for the memories
 
psychoDiablo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 15,971
Rep Power: 199
psychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to psychoDiablo Send a message via Yahoo to psychoDiablo
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

i got lots of reading to catch up on. this seems too good to pass up. i'll be back later for my own word.

but for now, You can all think of me as God. :P
__________________
I wouldn't say I'm psycho only because I'm able to handle it.
Now learn patience

To chill is to be chillin.
Chillin is cooperating with your surroundings, unknowing'st of what everything is capable of; and all the while, as it happens and after, to accept without any thought of good or bad, but mainly, just enjoying rather deeply, the moment you had to sit and think. (Not thinking.)

|-Mr.MCR-|

Will you write
Will you love
Will you enjoy
Life when I am gone?
You will.
by Angelina

"I have lived life as horrible as it was, and as beautiful as it has become."
psychoDiablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2004   #15
HolokittyNX
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Southern California, but I might move back to Earth one day.
Age: 35
Posts: 952
Rep Power: 0
HolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

Quote:
Originally Said by psychoDiablo2
i got lots of reading to catch up on. this seems too good to pass up. i'll be back later for my own word.

but for now, You can all think of me as God. :P
Solipsist?
HolokittyNX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2004   #16
psychoDiablo
Thx for the memories
 
psychoDiablo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 15,971
Rep Power: 199
psychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to psychoDiablo Send a message via Yahoo to psychoDiablo
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

fucked up. i typed out all kinds, and now it's gone.

what a piece of shit.


Holokitty, what do you think of Nature? And I dont mean watching animals. I mean all that is.

grr. u dont know what im saying.
god = everyhting around us. nature in itself.
God = Faith.
Faith = everything you believe to get you through.

lol forget it. this isnt goke sense and im not about to repost my shit.


also, about the convereted atheist...
How can you say anything? or describe anything? He's believed in nothing forever, and now he believes in something. How does he describe the life he's lived? He can't say shit. Why would you want to after that? That's really a big step in life. I mean, that's your entire mind just changing. You dont jjust wake up one morning with a changed mind. Things happened to lead there. That's why you woke up one morning with a changed mind.
__________________
I wouldn't say I'm psycho only because I'm able to handle it.
Now learn patience

To chill is to be chillin.
Chillin is cooperating with your surroundings, unknowing'st of what everything is capable of; and all the while, as it happens and after, to accept without any thought of good or bad, but mainly, just enjoying rather deeply, the moment you had to sit and think. (Not thinking.)

|-Mr.MCR-|

Will you write
Will you love
Will you enjoy
Life when I am gone?
You will.
by Angelina

"I have lived life as horrible as it was, and as beautiful as it has become."
psychoDiablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2004   #17
HolokittyNX
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Southern California, but I might move back to Earth one day.
Age: 35
Posts: 952
Rep Power: 0
HolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond reputeHolokittyNX has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

Atheism isn't believing in 'nothing.' It's simply not believing in a supreme being. I believe in all sorts of things, just none that are supernatural. If he can't explain what's different about his beliefs now, then it's just a fuzzy feeling he likes to call belief in a god. And your first description of 'god' is basically the view of scientific pantheists, who largely consider their beliefs a form of Atheism.
HolokittyNX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2004   #18
psychoDiablo
Thx for the memories
 
psychoDiablo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 15,971
Rep Power: 199
psychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond reputepsychoDiablo has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to psychoDiablo Send a message via Yahoo to psychoDiablo
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

to me ur pantheists , sound like an oxymoron. heh

i didn tmean atheism isn't believing in 'nothing'. it was so to speak u know...it was just easier that way to say
__________________
I wouldn't say I'm psycho only because I'm able to handle it.
Now learn patience

To chill is to be chillin.
Chillin is cooperating with your surroundings, unknowing'st of what everything is capable of; and all the while, as it happens and after, to accept without any thought of good or bad, but mainly, just enjoying rather deeply, the moment you had to sit and think. (Not thinking.)

|-Mr.MCR-|

Will you write
Will you love
Will you enjoy
Life when I am gone?
You will.
by Angelina

"I have lived life as horrible as it was, and as beautiful as it has become."
psychoDiablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2004   #19
Deuxmakina
Well Known Member
 
Deuxmakina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Somewhere between Earth and Heaven
Posts: 277
Rep Power: 31
Deuxmakina is a splendid one to beholdDeuxmakina is a splendid one to beholdDeuxmakina is a splendid one to beholdDeuxmakina is a splendid one to beholdDeuxmakina is a splendid one to beholdDeuxmakina is a splendid one to beholdDeuxmakina is a splendid one to behold
Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

Try to change the way you've been thinking all your life. That's hard. It has nothing to do with the fact that he is old.
__________________
Everything begins with a choice.
Deuxmakina is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I look like this famous person... Twilight General 38 03-02-2005 09:13 AM
ellen degeneres as god RubberDucky55 Movies & TV 10 11-12-2004 10:25 AM
A religious debate INCUBUS Debate & Politics 257 06-17-2004 07:56 AM
I Just Realized It's Hard Being A Christian Teen. rayato2k4 General 35 03-11-2004 11:49 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2000 - 2006, Almost Smart