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Old 11-13-2008   #101
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Re: Proposition 8

sorry you have been burned, but maybe you need to ease up on the ladies and you will find one who won't
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Old 11-13-2008   #102
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Re: Proposition 8

lol ease up. I'll find the right one, when I find the right one.
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Old 11-13-2008   #103
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Re: Proposition 8

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Originally Said by psychoDiablo View Post
FOXY CHICK,

That has made me laugh. You actually went back thru my posts to find stuff I have said. It only looks bad because you have 5 different quotes, but each quote says the same thing. Same word. Conniving. And females are, they have told me this and I've learned it from them.


But anyway, Don't act like I don't know how to treat a lady. You should have seen me when I was a teenager.


Dana, I've been burned by girls who weren't even my girlfriend.


Dont get me wrong ever, I truly love you women. I think women are just too fuckin fine and beautiful. You just aint gonna control me with your boobs anymore, that's all.

That and I've been listening to too much Tom Leykis . Most of the females here probably would hate this guy, but seeing is the chicks here are kinda smart, you may dig what he says.

That's because I searched the forums for the word "conniving," as I remembered that you had used it to describe women before. Most of the resultant posts were yours. I'm sure I could find more if I went through all of your posts, but I'm not willing to do that; five is a fine number.
My personal favorite was the "evil conniving whore bastards".
Really makes you seem, you know, stable.


Anyways, back to gay marriage?

The state of Connecticut started performing gay marriages yesterday.
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Old 11-13-2008   #104
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Re: Proposition 8

If females are conniving, then we have to lay much of the blame to all the fathers all over the world who allow their daughters, at a very early age, to learn and perfect how to sweet talk them into getting what they want. That's basically how that behavior starts, and then as they get older, it becomes second nature, and something they do subconsciously and/or instinctively to the men in their lives.
Then some take it to the next level and walk around pointing their fingers every day ordering their spineless man around.
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Last edited by Funk*Sonic*7; 11-13-2008 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 11-13-2008   #105
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Re: Proposition 8

evil conniving whore bastards. i can hardly believe i said that lol


there you go then. the gays can move to Connecticut.
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Old 11-14-2008   #106
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Re: Proposition 8

i was so happy prop 8 passed. understand that civil unions have the tax write offs that gays were looking for in marriage. so if you already have the rights why should i be forced to accept that behavior? i mean lets face it it is obscene. and let me give you an example why. if i told you all on here that what turns me on is a donkey and a small child, i'd be called a pervert and rightfully so. i think that saying "i'm gay" opening is very much the same thing. i don't care if you are gay and i don't care if you have gay sex but i think that it is obscene for me to be forced to know about it and accept it.

i think that religion has to have a say in this. i am not aware of any major religion that condones gay marriage. i have a buddy in boston who informs me that a catholic church in boston is being sued by a gay couple, they turned down their marriage ceremony, because it is "discrimination." do you folks say that a catholic church (that does not condone homosexual behavior) should be forced to marry them or give up the same tax breaks every church gets? does this not infringe on one's constitutional right to freedom of religion?

weeks before the election i found out about a 1st grade school class here in the san francisco area that went and witnessed their teacher's gay marriage durring school hours. does that piss off anyone else?

i should also say that everyone who gave money to "yes on prop 8" have been identified on a website. i know of a mormon stake president (means he is incharge of several church buildings and congregations) in san francisco who fears for his life from death threats that he has to carry a gun! this is a man of god, forced to carry a gun! a man who ran a theater in san francisco was forced to quit his job because he gave $1000 to "yes on prop 8." these are just 2 stories i've heard. there are other death threats and vandalism. i have heard of no death threats pre-election or post in this area against any homosexuals.

i know that some one is going to tell me that there are wackos on the other side too. i challenge you to give me an example and i don't want to hear about mathew shepard or harvey milk, i want to here a specific example here in california in relatively close time to and related to this election. i am done hearing accusations without examples.

just a nice side note. i was watching the news on election night and they were covering protesting in san francisco. they were reporting 100's of protesters in the castro district. i noticed that 100's of thousands voted on that prop and all they could actually get to protest inside the gay district of san francisco was less than 1000. i believe there are exponentially more people who believe that gays should marry than are actually gay and want to be married. any one else find this interesting?
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Old 11-14-2008   #107
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Re: Proposition 8

I didn't get past the first paragraph but I'll take it point by point.

Civil unions only exist in a few states. Domestic partnership laws also exist in a few other states, but do not include all that civil unions do. Neither are protected by federal laws. It's important to remember federal vs state factors.

"The Federal Defense of Marriage Law" defies our federal Constitution and as such is not constitutionally supported as originally intended. Again, wise forethought was incorporated by focusing on individuals retaining sovereign rights.

Do you want someone taking rights away from you?

Why concern yourself with taking rights away from other people when they are not violating your sovereign rights?

When you take a right away from someone, you set yourself up for a similar fall. History is funny that way by repeating itself.


Edit: Additionally, insurance companies do not have to honor civil unions or domestic partnerships the same as marriage.
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Old 11-14-2008   #108
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Re: Proposition 8

civil unions should be everywhere and should previde for tax relief and if it came up and i had to vote for it, i would be very willing to compromise and vote for it.

i do not look at marriage as being something i have a right to. i see it as a priviledge. priviledges come with prerequisites, oh like having one man and one women involved.
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Old 11-14-2008   #109
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Re: Proposition 8

Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
civil unions should be everywhere and should previde for tax relief and if it came up and i had to vote for it, i would be very willing to compromise and vote for it.
Well they aren't. So what now?


Quote:
i do not look at marriage as being something i have a right to. i see it as a priviledge. priviledges come with prerequisites, oh like having one man and one women involved.
Who says? If it was legally definitive there would be no controversy one way or the other. Busybodies, old biddies and whiners made homosexuality and same sex marriage an issue.

Lobbyists and lawmakers turned marriage into a right so it could be manipulated. Before that happened, it didn't matter what our personal preferences were. Why would you encourage more legal manipulation? We don't have enough? As an example I'll refer to the post naming which states made oral sex illegal.

There has been homosexual activity throughout nature for how long? How many thousands of years for humans? What point is there in trying to change nature, or in denying sovereign rights or privileges to any human?

Homosexuality has been more than acceptable at various times throughout history. Currently the issue is about making a more permanent, adult stance that won't lessen a person's value as a human in any aspect.
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Old 11-14-2008   #110
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Re: Proposition 8

it is not legally defined because it was a given and i gaurentee you that if the founding fathers wrote it out for you, homosexual marriage would not be an issue anywhere in the US.

if civil unions are not on the ballot it is not my job to put them there maybe the gay community ought to look into putting it on there because i know that the religious right would be more apt to pass it than gay marriage. that's what now!

i would argue that insest has has been in nature as long homosexuality but you don't advocate that do you? you want to cite nature as a reason when it suits you. if your arguement was sound you would be just as passionate to allow siblings marry and have kids. do you advocate that or are you a drone?
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Old 11-14-2008   #111
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Re: Proposition 8

Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
it is not legally defined because it was a given and i gaurentee you that if the founding fathers wrote it out for you, homosexual marriage would not be an issue anywhere in the US.
Sheez. People have beating each other up for ages and you had the answer all along! I can't imagine why everyone doesn't perceive same sex marriage exactly the same way if it's so cut and dry.


Quote:
if civil unions are not on the ballot it is not my job to put them there maybe the gay community ought to look into putting it on there because i know that the religious right would be more apt to pass it than gay marriage. that's what now!
Homosexuals and non-homosexuals are trying to get same sex marriage on the ballots. But they keep getting shutdown by lobbyists and lawmakers to opt for better business deals. How cool is that?

Quote:
i would argue that insest has has been in nature as long homosexuality but you don't advocate that do you? you want to cite nature as a reason when it suits you. if your arguement was sound you would be just as passionate to allow siblings marry and have kids. do you advocate that or are you a drone?
Strawman rides again.

Humans have learned that incest causes genetic problems. To support incest would be to encourage stupidity, literally.
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Old 11-14-2008   #112
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Re: Proposition 8

you think the founding fathers would have wrote down parameters for marriage including gay marriage?

if the gay community was willing to compromise and go with the civil union i have zero doubt that they would have it. if you go for broke you run the chance of being broke. that is what happened here in california.

so you know nothing of the negative reprocussions of anal sex. rectal tears as well as an increased percentage of passing STD's. see if you sleep with a person with an STD you aren't 100% going to get it. men are less likely to get aids from a women than vice-versa. understand that the rectum is a part of the body that absorbs nutrients and water from the food that you eat. injecting foreign genetic material is then absorbed the same way increasing the chances of not only contracting STD's but then passing them.
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Old 11-14-2008   #113
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Re: Proposition 8

Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
you think the founding fathers would have wrote down parameters for marriage including gay marriage?
I cannot stress enough how little my opinion, or any single opinion counts where diminishing sovereign rights might be involved. I don't believe what I think should count in any way that would take away from another person what does not affect me directly and diminish my sovereignty.

However, I believe it's very unlikely any of the founding fathers would consider even getting close to defining such parameters because that might border on some of the writers' personal habits.

And there lies the root. THE ROOT people want to ignore. If homosexuality is bad at all, it is always and completely bad. Therefore any "heterosexual" who suppresses or hides homosexual activities would have been setting themselves or their forebears up for nasty falls, losses and accompanying humiliation.

Again, a handful of states making oral sex illegal worked out well, didn't it? Yet it can be enforced because it exists and it exists because dimwitted, shortsighted idiots with a single purpose in mind neglected serving ALL of their constituents equally as the writers of our Constitutions intended.


Quote:
if the gay community was willing to compromise and go with the civil union i have zero doubt that they would have it. if you go for broke you run the chance of being broke. that is what happened here in california.
Again civil unions are not federally protected and you're ignoring other implications such as loss of employment benefits that heterosexual couples can assume.

What do you mean by going for broke?


Quote:
so you know nothing of the negative reprocussions of anal sex.
There can be negative repercussions with heterosexual activities. Humans can find a way to abuse anything.

Supporting non-heterosexuals does not imply ignorance on anyone's part about negative repercussions of anal sex. If you ask a self-respecting bisexual man you could probably find out more; only it's less common for men to be open about their bisexuality.

Bisexuality is fairly common among men and women despite the number of people who don't admit to bisexual activities. I am convinced of this such that I consider it to be a fact due to the number of men who have approached me or friends to participate in bisexual activities in a threesome with two men. I don't know how to be clearer.


Quote:
rectal tears as well as an increased percientage of passing STD's. see if you sleep with a person with an STD you aren't 100% going to get it. men are less likely to get aids from a women than vice-versa. understand that the rectum is a part of the body that absorbs nutrients and water from the food that you eat. injecting foreign genetic material is then absorbed the same way increasing the chances of not only contracting STD's but then passing them.
That's not all entirely as factual as you're presenting it, but again, with clarification the same could be easily said of heterosexual activities. Are you assuming women who get AIDS from their husbands always get it from anal sex? Or is it being assumed men who get AIDS from women always acquire AIDS from anal sex? To the best of my knowledge and I could be wrong though I have researched this some, AIDS and STDs are not "anal only", per se.


Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
i don't care if you are gay and i don't care if you have gay sex but i think that it is obscene for me to be forced to know about it and accept it.
Who is forcing you to know what? It's mildly amusing to me that so many non-homosexuals completely overlook how offensive heterosexuals can be to homosexuals. The few I've known well claim never to have had an interest in the opposite sex beyond a friendship. Should they go through life suffering alone without religion or sexual relationships? Why?

What do you say to someone who says they don't like something you do? Get over it? Read something else? No one twisted your arm to read or listen? Look elsewhere? Change the channel?


Quote:
i think that religion has to have a say in this.
Which religion? How should the religion to have a say be chosen? There can only be one :.), though some do accept homosexuals. I suspect you didn't realize that or you wouldn't suggest this.


Quote:
i am not aware of any major religion that condones gay marriage.
How about reformed Judaism? Baptists? Unitarian Universalists? Protestants? Though it may not yet be as common as it should, all of those and others do accept and openly provide services to homosexuals.

People really need to look beyond themselves and their real life bubble. Seriously. Research this online just a little and you'll probably be able to tell me more about it than I currently know since I haven't bothered for a few years.


Quote:
i have a buddy in boston who informs me that a catholic church in boston is being sued by a gay couple, they turned down their marriage ceremony, because it is "discrimination." do you folks say that a catholic church (that does not condone homosexual behavior) should be forced to marry them or give up the same tax breaks every church gets? does this not infringe on one's constitutional right to freedom of religion?
My personal opinion, which isn't worth squat as it pertains to someone else, is that a church should not be subject to changing unless it wants to.

However, there's always a prerequisite game of tug that precedes change a church might be willing to undergo. The Catholic Church has been going to great lengths to bolster a thinning congregation worldwide, but most conspicuously in America. If a church's members or would be members don't form a strong unified voice to represent a change they want to see, that church has no impetus to budge. As it is, churches are being proactively tasked with accommodating a changing world and more open minded members in their congregations.

Freedom of religion is not affected by a church should it decide to change. An example would be the differences between orthodox and non-orthodox churches. Our Constitutions only allow us to practice believing in what we choose to believe in, which does not extend to bending others to our will.

If you want things to be a certain way and don't want to be alone with your choices, find like minds. Non-heterosexuals have done that, yet they are as ubiquitous as heterosexuals and found everywhere in nearly every family around the world. Therefore they are found in all faiths and political positions. I wonder how many politicians would be left in their positions if bisexuality or non-heterosexuality could be proven and if either were illegal.

If the Catholic Church should decide to accept homosexuality across the board, for the moment I'll suggest the possibility of non-heterosexuals choosing to practice Catholicism in separate locations in an updated non-orthodox manner. Such churches will probably continue to evolve as they have been.

Quote:
weeks before the election i found out about a 1st grade school class here in the san francisco area that went and witnessed their teacher's gay marriage durring school hours. does that piss off anyone else?
No, it doesn't bother me and wouldn't if those kids were mine. Were they your children? It couldn't be mandatory and though I shouldn't assume, the kids' parents must have consented or all hell would have broken loose and the rest of the world would be laughing at us in a big way yet again.


Quote:
i should also say that everyone who gave money to "yes on prop 8" have been identified on a website. i know of a mormon stake president (means he is incharge of several church buildings and congregations) in san francisco who fears for his life from death threats that he has to carry a gun! this is a man of god, forced to carry a gun! a man who ran a theater in san francisco was forced to quit his job because he gave $1000 to "yes on prop 8." these are just 2 stories i've heard. there are other death threats and vandalism. i have heard of no death threats pre-election or post in this area against any homosexuals.
No one is forced to carry a gun. Such drama is counterproductive.

Discrimination is illegal in a federal way though and violators should be affected by their actions. You know, officials can count votes if they want to and use them however they see fit. Non-heterosexual couples supposedly make up 1% of American couples. So at least 2% of our population may be openly disclosed non-heterosexuals. How many single homosexuals might there be? How many people support actively non-heterosexuals or just don't care?

I began caring when Chris was born. His dad was afraid I'd "turn him into a pansy" because I didn't let him out of my sight when he was a toddler. I hadn't thought about homosexual anything until then. But after a few lost babies and difficulty conceiving again I couldn't care less about my miracle baby's adult sexual preferences. How absurd would that be? A second miracle child, Bryan, decided all future discussions about them both. 1) the impossible is possible; 2) I would be forever grateful for their presence in my life whatever their adult choices may be.

So let's add another slim 1% of families and assume there is usually at least a mother and one other individual who supports a non-heterosexual. And non-heterosexuals can have heterosexual friends, so allow them just one. There are businesses that cater to non-heterosexuals regardless of personal druthers, and employees who would be out of a job. Add churches scraping bottom to increase flocks and coming up with homosexuals, because then they can hit two birds one with one stone: be a "bigger, better" person (just from what I've experienced in churches I attended) and have more people while keeping those people from bohemian claws. There are surely more considerations, but this should make a clear point: non-heterosexuals and their supporters are everywhere. Historically, how can that be surprising to anyone?

The only issue at hand is how businesses might avoid paying benefits to individuals who deserve them as much as anyone else. Religion and other moot points are just tools of manipulation.

It's not a matter of an eye for an eye by voting for or against Proposition 8. It's a matter of not taking unnecessarily just because it can be done. Why should a Mormon care about a Catholic homosexual, other than it threatens Mormon BELIEFS. And beliefs are not the issue because anyone can BELIEVE what they want. Any Mormon against Proposition 8 can still believe whatever they want even if Proposition 8 had passed.

Quote:
i know that some one is going to tell me that there are wackos on the other side too. i challenge you to give me an example and i don't want to hear about mathew shepard or harvey milk, i want to here a specific example here in california in relatively close time to and related to this election. i am done hearing accusations without examples.
You want more anecdotes? You're taking such a strong stance that it's pointless for anyone to attempt to bring their side to you.

It is YOU who should be proactively seeking to understand what the other side is about so you can better support your arguments. As it is so far, you're mostly repeating worn perspectives. That is exactly why I can dispute them so easily. BTDT more often than I can remember.

You're making it easy. Give us a challenge. Respectfully, I suggest people should be willing to learn more about homosexuality so there can be a better discussion.


Quote:
just a nice side note. i was watching the news on election night and they were covering protesting in san francisco. they were reporting 100's of protesters in the castro district. i noticed that 100's of thousands voted on that prop and all they could actually get to protest inside the gay district of san francisco was less than 1000. i believe there are exponentially more people who believe that gays should marry than are actually gay and want to be married. any one else find this interesting?
There we go again with census manipulation and untraceable, unaccountable voting. Everyone should be truly fired up about both, but oddly enough so few people seem to be. I find THAT to be interesting. Couldn't possibly be media censoring such as with Michael Badnarik, among other matters.
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Old 11-15-2008   #114
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Re: Proposition 8

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Originally Said by poopy View Post
i was so happy prop 8 passed. understand that civil unions have the tax write offs that gays were looking for in marriage.
California does not have civil unions; it has domestic partnerships that allow homosexual couples rights such as hospital visitation, but do not allow tax breaks or other such benefits available to married couples.

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Originally Said by poopy View Post
so if you already have the rights why should i be forced to accept that behavior? i mean lets face it it is obscene.
According to whom? Homosexuality has been observed in other species, including fruit flies, penguins, bonobos, chimpanzees, and gorillas (the latter three being our closest genetic relatives). You only think it is "obscene" behavior because your religion told you it is.

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Originally Said by poopy View Post
and let me give you an example why. if i told you all on here that what turns me on is a donkey and a small child, i'd be called a pervert and rightfully so.
Strawman. Fewer than a hundred years ago, people thought interracial marriage was obscene and would lead to bestiality and incest. Did that happen? Or are there hundreds of thousands of happily married interracial couples?



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Originally Said by poopy View Post
i think that saying "i'm gay" opening is very much the same thing. i don't care if you are gay and i don't care if you have gay sex but i think that it is obscene for me to be forced to know about it and accept it.
I don't care if you have heterosexual sex, but I think that it is obscene for me to be forced to know about it and accept it. You're going to honestly deny people rights because their bedroom practices make you uncomfortable? What about heterosexual anal sex, oral sex, BDSM, fetish play, sex toys, and other "obscene" practices that, face it, married couples have? Should those be banned too? Should we only allow heterosexual sex in the missionary position for the purpose of making children?


Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
i think that religion has to have a say in this.
See, marriage is not just a religious issue. I don't think that churches (or the equivalent in any religion) should be forced to marry couples they don't approve of. That's fine. However, marriages can also be performed by justices of the peace, a government position; this is something that a lot of non-religious couples take advantage of. As it pertains to government practices (such as tax breaks, visitation rights, etc) marriage should not be influenced by religious thought: we have the separation of church and state for a reason. If you want to call all government-performed unions "civil unions" and only the religious aspect of the union "marriage," I would be fine with that, but the fact is that, currently, "marriages" are offered outside of the realm of religion and, thus, should not be influenced by religious dogma.


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Originally Said by poopy View Post
i am not aware of any major religion that condones gay marriage.
Google. I found the following in less than a minute:
The Episcopal Church, Buddhism (350 million worldwide), Hinduism (900 million worldwide), Judaism (officially does not approve but allows rabbis to perform any marriages they deem fit - 14 million worldwide), Unitarianism (800,000 worldwide), The United Church of Christ, and some Presbyterian churches (a major rift in this sect right now). I will also mention that the 1.1 billion people who consider themselves "secular, non-religious, atheist, or agnostic" do not subscribe to Christian or Catholic bigotry.


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Originally Said by poopy View Post
i have a buddy in boston who informs me that a catholic church in boston is being sued by a gay couple, they turned down their marriage ceremony, because it is "discrimination." do you folks say that a catholic church (that does not condone homosexual behavior) should be forced to marry them or give up the same tax breaks every church gets? does this not infringe on one's constitutional right to freedom of religion?
The couple should just get married elsewhere. However, I don't think the Catholic church (as a whole or this specific example) should receive tax breaks: this is contrary to the separation of church and state.
In no way does anything you mentioned infringe on anyone's freedom of religion (which, by the way, is not in the Constitution but in the Bill of Rights): people are still allowed to practice as they wish, and the church was still allowed to deny the couple a marriage ceremony. However, the couple should not be denied the secular rights ordained with marriage.


Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
weeks before the election i found out about a 1st grade school class here in the san francisco area that went and witnessed their teacher's gay marriage durring school hours. does that piss off anyone else?
No; it shouldn't have happened during school hours, but there have been cases of heterosexual teachers doing the same (obviously in a heterosexual marriage). Do you really think exposure to a gay marriage is damaging to a child?


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Originally Said by poopy View Post
i should also say that everyone who gave money to "yes on prop 8" have been identified on a website. i know of a mormon stake president (means he is incharge of several church buildings and congregations) in san francisco who fears for his life from death threats that he has to carry a gun! this is a man of god, forced to carry a gun! a man who ran a theater in san francisco was forced to quit his job because he gave $1000 to "yes on prop 8." these are just 2 stories i've heard. there are other death threats and vandalism. i have heard of no death threats pre-election or post in this area against any homosexuals.
Although I disapprove of violent retaliation against those who exercised their right to vote, I do disagree with some of your arguments.
First of all, being a "man of god" should not exclude him from repercussions of his actions.
Secondly: "i have heard of no death threats pre-election or post in this area against any homosexuals."
Really? No death threats against homosexuals? Ever?
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2006/table1.html
Oh, that's right: the anti-homosexual people actually act on their impulses: thousands of homosexual people have reported hate crimes against them and thousands more are probably too scared or too hurt to report attacks (as is the case with most hate crimes). Many homosexual people have actually been killed for their sexual orientation.


Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
i know that some one is going to tell me that there are wackos on the other side too. i challenge you to give me an example and i don't want to hear about mathew shepard or harvey milk, i want to here a specific example here in california in relatively close time to and related to this election. i am done hearing accusations without examples.
The statistics for 2008 have not yet been released. However, I was able to find the following:
  • On February 12, 2008, Lawrence "Larry" King, a 15 year old junior high school student was shot by a classmate at E.O. Green School in Oxnard, California. He was taken off life support after doctors declared him brain dead on February 15. According to Associated Press reports, "prosecutors have charged a 14-year-old classmate with premeditated murder with hate-crime and firearm-use enhancements".
  • In Rochester, New York on March 16, 2008 police say Lance Neve was beaten unconscious because Neve was gay. A man attacked Neve at a bar leaving him with a fractured skull, and a broken nose.
  • In Baltimore County, Maryland on May 29, 2008 eighteen year old Steven Parrish—a member of the Young Swans subgroup of the Bloods—was murdered by Steven T. Hollis III and Juan L. Flythe after they found "gay messages" on his cell phone. They felt having a gay member would make their gang appear weak and that by killing Parrish they could prevent that perception.
  • September 7, 2008 - Tony Randolph Hunter, 27, and his partner were attacked and beaten near a gay bar in Washington DC. Hunter later died from his injuries on September 18th. Police are investigating it as a possible hate crime.
  • In February 2008, transsexual Duanna Johnson was beaten by a police officer while she was held in the Shelby County Criminal Justice Center. Johnson said the officers reportedly called her a “faggot” and “he-she,” before and during the incident. In November 2008, she was found dead in the street, reportedly gunned down by three unknown individuals.

Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
just a nice side note. i was watching the news on election night and they were covering protesting in san francisco. they were reporting 100's of protesters in the castro district. i noticed that 100's of thousands voted on that prop and all they could actually get to protest inside the gay district of san francisco was less than 1000. i believe there are exponentially more people who believe that gays should marry than are actually gay and want to be married. any one else find this interesting?
I'm not gay and do not want to be married, but I think that gays should be allowed to be married because anything else is denying them a right based on their sexual orientation. As Christian said earlier, marriage is part of the unalienable right to the pursuit of happiness and it should not be denied to anyone simply because a religious group disapproves.

Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
civil unions should be everywhere and should previde for tax relief and if it came up and i had to vote for it, i would be very willing to compromise and vote for it.

i do not look at marriage as being something i have a right to. i see it as a priviledge. priviledges come with prerequisites, oh like having one man and one women involved.
Who are you to determine that prerequisite? Why does the church get to decide? I think the prerequisite should be love, not sexuality. Besides, you can't say that the 55-hour union of Britney Spears deserves the "privilege" of being called "marriage" just because it is heterosexual and homosexual couples who have been together and faithful for decades do not.
Also, it's "privilege" and "woman".
To see how ridiculous your argument is, place it back a century and replace "one man and one women [sic]" with "two white people".

Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
it is not legally defined because it was a given and i gaurentee you that if the founding fathers wrote it out for you, homosexual marriage would not be an issue anywhere in the US.
The founding fathers did not believe the bigotry and corruption of religion should be anywhere in government. I daresay if they had laid it out, religiously-sanctified marriages wouldn't be a government issue anywhere in the US, either.

Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
if civil unions are not on the ballot it is not my job to put them there maybe the gay community ought to look into putting it on there because i know that the religious right would be more apt to pass it than gay marriage. that's what now!
Homosexuals push for marriage over civil unions because they don't want to compromise their rights. Settling for civil unions would deny them some rights in each state (including visitation in hospitals, life insurance benefits, tax relief, etc). Separate cannot be equal, and homosexuals deserve equal rights.

Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
i would argue that insest has has been in nature as long homosexuality but you don't advocate that do you? you want to cite nature as a reason when it suits you. if your arguement was sound you would be just as passionate to allow siblings marry and have kids. do you advocate that or are you a drone?
I do not advocate incest because it produces genetic problems in the offspring. However, as homosexuals are inherently incapable of producing offspring, your argument is totally invalid: if they want children, homosexual couples usually adopt rather than add to the overpopulation problem. I see no genetic problems possible in this situation (or if they choose to use in vitro fertilization and donor sperm, in the case of lesbian couples). The reason incest is banned is because it genetically harms any offspring. Homosexual sex or marriage does not.

Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
if the gay community was willing to compromise and go with the civil union i have zero doubt that they would have it. if you go for broke you run the chance of being broke. that is what happened here in california.
They still have domestic partnerships in California, and they shouldn't have to compromise for civil unions.

Quote:
Originally Said by poopy View Post
so you know nothing of the negative reprocussions of anal sex. rectal tears as well as an increased percentage of passing STD's. see if you sleep with a person with an STD you aren't 100% going to get it. men are less likely to get aids from a women than vice-versa. understand that the rectum is a part of the body that absorbs nutrients and water from the food that you eat. injecting foreign genetic material is then absorbed the same way increasing the chances of not only contracting STD's but then passing them.
I don't think you quite understand anal sex. Rectal tears are common and the increased chance of passing an STD is because of blood-to-blood contact (although many heterosexual couples also have this concern). This is easily prevented with the use of a condom. The rectum does not absorb nutrients, the intestines do; the rectum is only a place to store fecal material until it is expelled from your body. It cannot absorb genetic material; even if it could, STDs are not passed through DNA--they are viruses and bacterium that inhabit cells, not nucleotides.
Make sure you have an idea what the hell you're talking about before making a complete ass of yourself.
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Old 11-15-2008   #115
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Re: Proposition 8

Thumbs up Foxy for your effort.

Since relegion got named often here:
You can marry someone without having the church involved. So why can't (or should not) gay couples do the same? The church can't say something against it since she is not even involved in it (what church is allowed to order something anyways since there are way more relegions then one and the christian church is kinda young compared to other world relegions).

You guys are also arguing about state giving benefits to married couples. Isn't the state giving it to both? Those who had a church weddings and those who didn't had the church involved? So, what is the matter? Why are you refusing someone rights that are so normal for others.
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Old 11-17-2008   #116
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Re: Proposition 8

Quote:
Originally Said by EVERYBODY
OMFG,

W
A
L
L

O
F

T
E
X
T
Can we seriously try to get some formalism into our writing styles? Perhaps a brief essay would be a better response than simply having everyone rebut every single sentence that poopy wrote. As for me, I didn't read anything past his post, because honestly, I don't think my attention span can handle even close to the 10 pages of outrage that followed.
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Old 11-17-2008   #117
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Re: Proposition 8

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Originally Said by Yugoloth View Post
Can we seriously try to get some formalism into our writing styles? Perhaps a brief essay would be a better response than simply having everyone rebut every single sentence that poopy wrote. As for me, I didn't read anything past his post, because honestly, I don't think my attention span can handle even close to the 10 pages of outrage that followed.
I love Poopy for the same reason I love Holokitty. Everything he says pisses everyone the fuck off.

As long as you don't get involved, it's great fun to watch.
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Old 11-17-2008   #118
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Re: Proposition 8

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Originally Said by Yugoloth View Post
Can we seriously try to get some formalism into our writing styles? Perhaps a brief essay would be a better response than simply having everyone rebut every single sentence that poopy wrote. As for me, I didn't read anything past his post, because honestly, I don't think my attention span can handle even close to the 10 pages of outrage that followed.
Yes, debates and discussions are usually completed with reciprocal essay writing. Obama won the presidential election because his margins were awesome, and he stuck perfectly to the five paragraph form.

Are you serious?
If you don't care enough to read the posts, then why involve yourself in the thread?
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Old 11-17-2008   #119
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Re: Proposition 8

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Originally Said by foxyphoenix View Post
Yes, debates and discussions are usually completed with reciprocal essay writing. Obama won the presidential election because his margins were awesome, and he stuck perfectly to the five paragraph form.

Are you serious?
If you don't care enough to read the posts, then why involve yourself in the thread?
Because you're such a sweetheart, that's why. Obama wasn't having a casual written argument on the Internet, so it makes sense that he didn't write essays.

Believe it or not, most arguments on this web site follow this very same path, where one dissenter is getting nitpicked to death by whatever the current AS orthodoxy is. Everyone will jump on this one guy, and suddenly his cogent disagreement is turned into 10 simultaneous arguments that are difficult to follow, time consuming to respond to, and typically irrelevant to the original topic.

Anyhow, "essay" doesn't imply five paragraphs with 1" margins. It's a writing style that answers a question or makes a statement, provides supporting arguments, then comes to a conclusion. It can be as short or as long as you like.

Do whatever you want, of course. It may even be that poopy saw all that stuff you posted and thought, "f--- that," and won't reply. You get to feel like a winner. Gets 'em every time.
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Old 11-17-2008   #120
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Re: Proposition 8

This is a '6 and older" appropriate book.

I think not.
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