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Old 12-09-2007   #61
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Re: Religion

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Originally Said by Jugband View Post
No.
Double Negative No
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Old 12-10-2007   #62
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Re: Religion

That's not a double-negative...

Back on track, debate thread!

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Old 12-10-2007   #63
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Re: Religion

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Originally Said by wizard924 View Post
KEEP IT CLEAN PEOPLE!!!
Alright, but seriously, why do we need a religion anyway? If you strip down the backstory from ALL relgions (Buddist, Muslim, Christianity, Judaism, ect...) don't they all say the same thing? Live a clean and prosperious life, follow the rules of morality, and lead a fullfilling life. We seriously don't need a church or other institutions to tell us these obvious things. Agnostic to the maximalist and atheism to the minimalist.
Recently, I was watching Bill Moyers interview Salman Rushdie, and Rushdie had an interesting take. He said that people create religion because they want an explanation of their internal morals. That is, they can't believe that morals don't come from some higher power, so they need to create that God in order to explain it.
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Old 12-10-2007   #64
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Re: Religion

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Originally Said by Jenn and tonic View Post
Recently, I was watching Bill Moyers interview Salman Rushdie, and Rushdie had an interesting take. He said that people create religion because they want an explanation of their internal morals. That is, they can't believe that morals don't come from some higher power, so they need to create that God in order to explain it.
You know... that makes a lot of sense. Ahh, leave it to Salman Rushdie... how I love that man... sheer brilliance! And talk about balls! I still fear Ayatollah Khomeini and he's quite dead.

Off-topic, jut love throwing DK verses out there:
"Music is banned in Khomeini's Iran
On the grounds that it stimulates the brain.
We've got him one there in the land of coke and honey
Using music to put people's brains to sleep!
Ever wonder why commercial radio's so bad?
It's cuz someone up there wants it that way
If the Doors or John Lennon were getting started now
The industry wouldn't sign them in a million years!"
-Dead Kennedys "Triumph of the Swill"
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Old 12-10-2007   #65
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Re: Religion

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Originally Said by JaSunTzu View Post
No. That's not true. They changed the rules. Didn't you get the memo? Everyone goes to Heaven now.

Blah... I should just stop paying attention to this thread. Because you religious people are going to be serious about something I'm not serious about. And you'll start quoting your Bibles and what not and that's just not even logical.
are you talking about the in fallacy?
hip hip hooray! that's such an interesting principle for you cathlics. research it.

Yes to above post
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--Forbes article on Food crisis in India

Quote:
Originally Said by Zanahoria_Picante View Post
Little Jimmy: (Tries to pour cereal from box; nothing comes out) "Nothing...for breakfast?"
Announcer: "That's right, little Jimmy! Nihilistic Crunch comes with a little nothing in every box!"
Little Jimmy: "Gee wiz, Mister! Won't I be hungry for the rest of the day?"
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Little Jimmy: (looks downcast)
Announcer: "Nihilistic Crunch: Now utterly devoid of swirls!"
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Old 12-11-2007   #66
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Quote:
Originally Said by Jenn and tonic View Post
Recently, I was watching Bill Moyers interview Salman Rushdie, and Rushdie had an interesting take. He said that people create religion because they want an explanation of their internal morals. That is, they can't believe that morals don't come from some higher power, so they need to create that God in order to explain it.
True. But one question rises up, why does one need a higher being to convey morals? We judge due to our humane intentions or lack of, and we have not proved god exists or that two + two equals four in base one. Therefore, I come to the conclusion that all is false, and that we need a ground to stand on or else we'll be nihilists.

As my favorite video game/cartoon/comic characters said:
Sam: Better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven... Milton.
Max: Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens... David Bryne.
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Last edited by Jenn and tonic; 12-11-2007 at 06:36 AM. Reason: double posting
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Old 12-11-2007   #67
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Re: Religion

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Originally Said by wizard924 View Post
True. But one question rises up, why does one need a higher being to convey morals? We judge due to our humane intentions or lack of, and we have not proved god exists or that two + two equals four in base one. Therefore, I come to the conclusion that all is false, and that we need a ground to stand on or else we'll be nihilists.
Don't double post; just edit your previous posts. Thank you!

Back on topic: the reason that people need that higher being is most humans have pathological need for answers. God is that answer for a lot of people.
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Old 12-12-2007   #68
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Re: Religion

No, all is not false. If all is false, then you should go sit in a cave for a few days, and see what happens.

Are you hungry? that is false, you are not hungry, you only think you are.
Are you thirsty? that is false, you are not thirsty, you only think you are.

yes, things exist. and, in the christian belief system, god instilled us with values, and they have rightous values.

He merley lays them out for you in a handy dandy: BIBLE.
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"There is, after all, more social justice in a loaf of bread than in schemes for a fairer distribution of wealth. Putting it another way . . . Adam Smith, however unfashionable, can feed more people than Karl Marx can."
--Forbes article on Food crisis in India

Quote:
Originally Said by Zanahoria_Picante View Post
Little Jimmy: (Tries to pour cereal from box; nothing comes out) "Nothing...for breakfast?"
Announcer: "That's right, little Jimmy! Nihilistic Crunch comes with a little nothing in every box!"
Little Jimmy: "Gee wiz, Mister! Won't I be hungry for the rest of the day?"
Announcer: "Well, Jimmy, that's the cost of keepin' it real."
Little Jimmy: (looks downcast)
Announcer: "Nihilistic Crunch: Now utterly devoid of swirls!"
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Old 12-13-2007   #69
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Re: Religion

Do you think, then, that morality cannot be achieved without a handy dandy Bible to tell us how to behave?
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Old 12-13-2007   #70
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Re: Religion

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Originally Said by foxyphoenix View Post
Do you think, then, that morality cannot be achieved without a handy dandy Bible to tell us how to behave?
Anyone can achieve an appearance of morality, methinks, but whether or not a person’s actions have value in God’s sight is another story. Certainly, no one pleases God working out of human ambition or strength--through self-determination (Romans 8, ‘specially verse 8). Faith in Christ and dependence on Christ to righteously live pleases God.

So, yes, you must first believe God (possible only by reading Scripture or receiving Scripture through another person, yes) in order to live a life morally upright in God’s sight. Pursuing human morality, if you will, may satisfy other people, but only faith in Christ satisfies God, justifying a person in His sight (Galatians 3:11).

I agree with Mr. Definistrate when he said statements like "all is false" are difficult to consistently live or realistically apply, but I strongly question this:

Quote:
Originally Said by Mr. Definistrate
yes, things exist. and, in the christian belief system, god instilled us with values, and they have rightous values.

He merley lays them out for you in a handy dandy: BIBLE.
I don't think people innately know or exhibit God's righteous values, nor that the Bible merely lays out a collection of moral laws already naturally present (or even God-instilled) in the human mind.

In fact, God gave the Old Testament Law, for one, to make people aware of their sin (Romans 3:20) and show man's inability to be made righteous through obeying the law, stating (in Hebrews, chapter 7:11-26, in particular) the superiority of Christ and His ability, unlike the Law, to bring man salvation (and sanctification*), through faith in Him.

*Just...Being made Holy; practically living the Christian life.
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Old 12-14-2007   #71
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Re: Religion

What language does god speak when he talks to Adam &Eve?

What language does the talking snake speak when he talks to Eve?

What language did adam and eve speak to each other?

What language was spoken BEFORE it was translated into ancient Hebrew?
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Old 12-18-2007   #72
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Re: Religion

There seems to be proof that Adam and Eve understood Hebrew. So i guess that would be the language they spoke.

http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/199/Q2/
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Old 12-18-2007   #73
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Re: Religion

Which it says in the Bible, which was originally written in Hebrew. Self-evidence is not empirical; it's circular reasoning.

They could have spoken a completely different language (say, Elvish or something) but the translation to Hebrew would have changed the names. I could easily take Chai (life, Hebrew) and change it to Karasi (life and wisdom, African Origin) and publish a new Genesis calling Eve 'Karasi' in African dialects... doesn't mean that she and Adam (pending their actual existence) spoke those dialects.
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Old 12-18-2007   #74
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Re: Religion

Frankly, I don't think it really matters if we know the exact language spoken during that time. We can speculate and infer up the wazoo, but will likely not reach any sound conclusion, and, really, it's not crucial for us to know.

For all we know, they could've conversed in Swedish, and that still (other than being rather odd) would have little bearing on the basic doctrines held by Christianity.
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Old 12-18-2007   #75
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Re: Religion

"He called her isha (woman) because "she was taken from ish (man)"
"and he called her Chava (Eve) because "she was to be Mother of all chai (life)."
"The very name Adam is from the Hebrew word adamah (earth), referring to the fact that G-d created Adam from the earth."

Those are refrences that seem to be only seen in Hebrew, but what do i know? lol
We don't really have any solid proof to what language they really spoke, though.
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John 8:28 Then Jesus said unto them, When ye lifted up the Son of man, then yee shall know that I am He, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So clap your hands to the sound
Of every first born dying now
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Old 12-18-2007   #76
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Re: Religion

yea kinda hard to take something serious when the margin of error in accuracy of translation is exponentially increasing.
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