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Old 09-02-2004   #1
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13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

i got this from some diary. i didnt know where to put it, so i just put it in here, cause someone might want to argue with me...

1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control.

2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can't legally get married because the world needs more children.

3. Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if Gay marriage is allowed, since Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.

5. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are property, blacks can't marry whites, and divorce is illegal.

6. Gay marriage should be decided by people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities.

7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

10. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children.

11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven't adapted to things like cars or longer lifespan.

12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "separate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages for gays and lesbians will.

13. The sanctity of marriage is fundamental in Christianity. This is why we only allow people who are Christian to get married, so that this sanctity is not violated.

(and ya, this is sarcasm, people.)
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Last edited by RubberDucky55; 09-02-2004 at 08:53 PM. Reason: sarcasm!
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Old 09-02-2004   #2
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

I have read this before...not sure if it was here or on live journal. Makes some good points though.
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Old 09-02-2004   #3
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

total crap. what good points? as i read 1 thru 7 only.
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Old 09-02-2004   #4
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

yeah, i read that too. It is funny and makse the points without being overly mean and hateful.
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Old 09-02-2004   #5
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

well, you do get that its all sarcastic, right?
haha, in the journal i read it on, some people left notes yelling at the person about how stupid they are and how none of it was true. (as in, didnt realize it was sarcasm)
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Old 09-02-2004   #6
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

I don't agree with this for one main reason... If you are saying everyone is equal, that means EVERYONE. Excluding homosexuals would be like excluding a certain race.

I don't personally believe in homosexuality but if it's not harming me than it's not a problem, right?

Edit: I sense the sarcasm but I was just addressing the topic in general. The post itself was smart in a way.
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Last edited by superchicken002; 09-02-2004 at 08:41 PM. Reason: needed to add something!
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Old 09-02-2004   #7
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

I know that it was being sarcastic. I meant about how obvious it is that it's just about discrimination.
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Old 09-02-2004   #8
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can't legally get married because the world needs more children.

the world needs more children? we have too many children if anything, theres over 6 billion people on the world, i think this point is stupid and not valid.

3. Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

strait parents can raise either gay or strait children obviously or gay children wouldnt exist.

5. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are property, blacks can't marry whites, and divorce is illegal.

since when is interracial illegal... your saying if i plan on marrying my mexican girlfriend im not allowed because shes a different race... and divorce illegal? in america, hold on as i pick myself up of the ground from laughing... i wish it was illegal

as i now realize it is sarcastic then i also disagree on some points being sarcastic because i find some to be true...

shitty points, this should be in the jokes section.
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Old 09-02-2004   #9
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

Quote:
Originally Said by 4degrees
I know that it was being sarcastic. I meant about how obvious it is that it's just about discrimination.
well ya, i was talking to psychodiablo, cause i wasnt sure if he got that it was sarcastic.

sorry, psychopatpl, i just figured it might get some debate started, so id put it out of the way for jokes.
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Old 09-02-2004   #10
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

I was talking to PD2 too.
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Old 09-02-2004   #11
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

oh, right. i totally knew that. of course...
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Old 09-03-2004   #12
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

haha sorry bout that, i think i just got pissed off because i didnt want it to be sarcastic so i could have a real debate with an extreemist... oh well

im all better now... and i hope your plan works out for you
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Old 09-03-2004   #13
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

no, i think it was really good. just because its sarcastic dosnt make it a joke. read it as:

point x) (view on homosexuality), (why this is obviosily not true)

the thing about more children was my favorite, OBVIOSILY we dont need more children, and so any slagging of gay marriage based on the fact they cant copulate is balls because the ability to have kids is not important. i wholehartedly support this thread, and someone should post in that thread with the arguments about gay marriage; makes all the points needed.
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Old 09-03-2004   #14
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

Quote:
Originally Said by psychopatpl
haha sorry bout that, i think i just got pissed off because i didnt want it to be sarcastic so i could have a real debate with an extreemist... oh well

im all better now... and i hope your plan works out for you
yes, i like the extremists too. i always like a good debate with a crazy person i can never convince. but then i can always know im right, adn that they're crazy. haha
and i thought it made very good points too.
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Old 09-03-2004   #15
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

Quote:
Originally Said by RubberDucky55
1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control.
This is just dumb, it makes you look bad rather than me. Nobody has ever compared homosexuality to these things. And what, may I ask, make you believe homosexuality is natural?

Quote:
2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can't legally get married because the world needs more children.
This argument has been confused, children force parents to work to produce income, stimulating the economy. Therefore, we give married couples tax breaks, because they typically produce offspring. Gay people would not deserve this benefit of marriage, but they want it anyway.

Quote:
3. Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
Dumb, nobody has used this argument.

Quote:
4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if Gay marriage is allowed, since Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
Nobody has said straight marriage will be less meaningful.

Quote:
5. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are property, blacks can't marry whites, and divorce is illegal.
So what? Times change, things people cannot change are given rights. Homosexuality is a choice.

Quote:
6. Gay marriage should be decided by people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities.
So? Irrelevant.

Quote:
7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.
Actually, the world's three major religion have spoken out agsinst homosexuality: Christianity, Judiaism, and Islam. Also, many Hindi and Budhist groups have spoken against it.

Quote:
8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
Some of these arguments have never been used. Just goes to show you that liberals will say any dumb hting to make their opponent look bad.

Quote:
9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
Marrying animals arguments are analogies: 'If two me can marry, then what's next?' is what we are tring to say.

Quote:
10. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
No, but children with one parent are scared and traumatized for life in many cases. Just this month in "Reader's Digest" there is an article about this.

Quote:
11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven't adapted to things like cars or longer lifespan.
Marriage has not really changed, it is still the basis of society. Changing it drastically would not be good.

Quote:
12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "separate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages for gays and lesbians will.
Civil Unions are good because two men don't deserve the same priveleges as a man and a woman, and vise versa.

Quote:
13. The sanctity of marriage is fundamental in Christianity. This is why we only allow people who are Christian to get married, so that this sanctity is not violated.
Like I said earlier, 70% of the people in the world are either Muslim, Christian, or Catholic and all of these religions have spoken out against homosexuality. Except for a few groups (ie Episcopals)
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Old 09-03-2004   #16
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

...Let me rebut all this when I have more time.
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Old 09-03-2004   #17
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

see, i told you psychopatpl...

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
This is just dumb, it makes you look bad rather than me. Nobody has ever compared homosexuality to these things. And what, may I ask, make you believe homosexuality is natural?
for them it is. you people never get this. it feels natural for them. i think its completely unfair of you to tell them to ignore their feelings on love.

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
This argument has been confused, children force parents to work to produce income, stimulating the economy. Therefore, we give married couples tax breaks, because they typically produce offspring. Gay people would not deserve this benefit of marriage, but they want it anyway.
and...so that means infertile couples and older couples lose their benefits too?

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
Dumb, nobody has used this argument.
ive heard it before.

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
Nobody has said straight marriage will be less meaningful.
haha, are you kidding me? wasnt there a whole arguement about how marriage will become less important and how it wont mean the same things?

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
So what? Times change, things people cannot change are given rights. Homosexuality is a choice.
grr, you people need to get it through your heads that they cant change it just as much as you cant change.

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
Actually, the world's three major religion have spoken out agsinst homosexuality: Christianity, Judiaism, and Islam. Also, many Hindi and Budhist groups have spoken against it.
so? were supposed to live in a country where religion doesnt interfere with government. the fact still remains, its destroying seperation of church and state.

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
Some of these arguments have never been used. Just goes to show you that liberals will say any dumb hting to make their opponent look bad.
ive heard that one too. and god, dont start with the "lying liberals", and democrat vs republicans.

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
Marrying animals arguments are analogies: 'If two me can marry, then what's next?' is what we are tring to say.
haha, whats left? i dont think gay marriage is that big of a deal and that out there.

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
No, but children with one parent are scared and traumatized for life in many cases. Just this month in "Reader's Digest" there is an article about this.
traumatized? sorry, i dont believe that. i think kids who group in a single-parent home turn out just fine. but the point is, not just a man and a woman can raise a child.

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
Marriage has not really changed, it is still the basis of society. Changing it drastically would not be good.
i dont think its a drastic change. just like black and white people being able to get married wasnt a drastic change. what bad thing would happen if gay marriage is legalized?

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
Civil Unions are good because two men don't deserve the same priveleges as a man and a woman, and vise versa.
and why the hell not? just because they cant reproduce? they love each other. what more do you need to make it equal..

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
Like I said earlier, 70% of the people in the world are either Muslim, Christian, or Catholic and all of these religions have spoken out against homosexuality. Except for a few groups (ie Episcopals)
...and again...so? just because some religions dont agree with, doesnt mean we cant have it.

ya know, if not for the fact that gays deserve the same rights, but because its interfering with the seperation of church and state. its the church's feelings that homosexuality is wrong, and cant get married before the eyes of god. that needs to be kept seperate from what the government does. its totally stepping over the line, and its completely obvious. and no ones doing anything. it makes me mad...
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Old 09-04-2004   #18
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

Quote:
Originally Said by RubberDucky55
see, i told you psychopatpl...

for them it is. you people never get this. it feels natural for them. i think its completely unfair of you to tell them to ignore their feelings on love.
This makes no sense. I said that nobody has ever, ever compared homosexuality to the things you listed.

Quote:
and...so that means infertile couples and older couples lose their benefits too?
No, but 80% of marriages produce children.

Quote:
ive heard it before.
Where?

Quote:
haha, are you kidding me? wasnt there a whole arguement about how marriage will become less important and how it wont mean the same things?
Again, Where?

Quote:
grr, you people need to get it through your heads that they cant change it just as much as you cant change.
Grr no. You aren't born with this. You may be born with a tendancy towards it, much like I am born with a tendancy towards alcoholism because my grandfathers were alcoholics, but the human genome is so complex that no personality trait can be reduced to "just being born with it". And who says I can't change? I've heard stories of straight guys having sex for money. I could too.

Quote:
so? were supposed to live in a country where religion doesnt interfere with government. the fact still remains, its destroying seperation of church and state.
Actually, religion played a HUGE part in the formation of America. All of the founding fathers were devout Christians, and many of our laws were derived from the Bible. Besides, I was replying more to you saying that we have only one religion against gay marriage, which is just a lie.

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ive heard that one too. and god, dont start with the "lying liberals", and democrat vs republicans.
Actually, that's what this is all about. These arguments are normally used by narrow minded, uneducated people in their living rooms to their hick friends.

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haha, whats left? i dont think gay marriage is that big of a deal and that out there.
What's next? How about rights for two people who just live together? How about three person marriages? Change marriage too much and it will go, and society with it.

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traumatized? sorry, i dont believe that. i think kids who group in a single-parent home turn out just fine. but the point is, not just a man and a woman can raise a child.
I'll post the article, *with quotes from adults traumatized by chilhood experiences of divorce* when I find it on the net.

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i dont think its a drastic change. just like black and white people being able to get married wasnt a drastic change. what bad thing would happen if gay marriage is legalized?
Two quotes up I said what I believe will happen. I do think it's a drastic change: marriage has ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS been a man and a woman. A man and a man is much different.

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and why the hell not? just because they cant reproduce? they love each other. what more do you need to make it equal..
I said "and vice versa", Civil Unions would provide other benefits, different from the benefits of a regular marriage.

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...and again...so? just because some religions dont agree with, doesnt mean we cant have it.
You were saying stuff about Christianity, so I replied and said that other religions were against it as well. And we're not talking "some relisions", we are talking about religions that 70% of the world subscribe to!

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ya know, if not for the fact that gays deserve the same rights, but because its interfering with the seperation of church and state. its the church's feelings that homosexuality is wrong, and cant get married before the eyes of god. that needs to be kept seperate from what the government does. its totally stepping over the line, and its completely obvious. and no ones doing anything. it makes me mad...
That's not true, I know many republicans who are not Christians who are against gay marriage because they believe that two men do not deserve the rights of a man and a woman. It's not all about religion. And I don't care if you're mad. I get mad a lot, but I don't say it in every post in which someone says something I don't like.

Verilon- I look forward to another debate with you, but I really don't like debating with people on something where I might hurt them on a personal level...that's not what I aim to do, what do you feel about this.
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Old 09-04-2004   #19
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
This makes no sense. I said that nobody has ever, ever compared homosexuality to the things you listed.
its not just what it was compare to, its that if your going to call it unatural, then you also must have a problem with everything else that wasnt made naturally, and doesnt happen naturally.

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No, but 80% of marriages produce children.
but its not the point of marriage. it wasnt "invented" so people could have kids.

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Where?
i dont know sepcifically where, but ive heard that argument used before. some people are convinced that if a child is raised in a gay home, then he/she will most certainly become a homosexual.

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Again, Where?
now this one was actually from almost smart. and ya know, that argument was pretty much used by you. haha, that's funny...
http://www.almostsmart.com/forums/sh...?t=8045&page=2
Quote:
Originally Said by bleed black
I'm saying it will lead to the downfall of society. If you knock of the conerstone of what's always been, the rest will begin to crumble. Eventually, marriage will become obsolete if gay marriage is legalized, and it will all go downhill.
i think poopy used that argument too.

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Grr no. You aren't born with this. You may be born with a tendancy towards it, much like I am born with a tendancy towards alcoholism because my grandfathers were alcoholics, but the human genome is so complex that no personality trait can be reduced to "just being born with it". And who says I can't change? I've heard stories of straight guys having sex for money. I could too.
haha. doing it for money? you consider that changing your sexual orientation. oh man. you still dont get it. its about love.

Quote:
Actually, religion played a HUGE part in the formation of America. All of the founding fathers were devout Christians, and many of our laws were derived from the Bible. Besides, I was replying more to you saying that we have only one religion against gay marriage, which is just a lie.
its not just that one religion considers it bad, its that were supposed to be a country based on an unbiased country. no religion is supposed to have an effect on what we do. what laws would that be? dont kill? dont steal? because yes, we never ever had those laws or morals before the bible was written. boy did that book bring on new ideas.

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Actually, that's what this is all about. These arguments are normally used by narrow minded, uneducated people in their living rooms to their hick friends.
what the hell, this isnt about me being a libral. stop fucking insulting me, especially when its completely irrelavant to the topic. im not narrowminded, uneducated, or a hick. if your gonna debate, debate without calling the other person names.

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What's next? How about rights for two people who just live together? How about three person marriages? Change marriage too much and it will go, and society with it.
its still 2 people in love. i dont consider that a change.

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I'll post the article, *with quotes from adults traumatized by chilhood experiences of divorce* when I find it on the net.
ya you gotta be specific. divorve is much different than having a single parent. the adults are the ones who make it hard on them. its not just because of the divorce, but because the parents make such a big deal about it. if parents are gonna get divorced, they should keep it nice and clean for the sake of the kids.

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Two quotes up I said what I believe will happen. I do think it's a drastic change: marriage has ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS been a man and a woman. A man and a man is much different.
a mariage had ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS been about two people in love. not about whether they plan on having kids or not. its still love.

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I said "and vice versa", Civil Unions would provide other benefits, different from the benefits of a regular marriage.
gay people can adopt. they have the possiblity of raising children. why shouldnt they get the same benefits.

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You were saying stuff about Christianity, so I replied and said that other religions were against it as well. And we're not talking "some relisions", we are talking about religions that 70% of the world subscribe to!
that shouldnt make a difference. that wouldnt justify basing a law on your beliefs.

Quote:
That's not true, I know many republicans who are not Christians who are against gay marriage because they believe that two men do not deserve the rights of a man and a woman. It's not all about religion. And I don't care if you're mad. I get mad a lot, but I don't say it in every post in which someone says something I don't like.
haha, wow excuse me for saying how i feel. and ya, i guess i do totally say it in every single post that i get pissed off. anyways. i dont believe that gay people dont deserve the same rights as a married couple, just because they are the same sex.

haha, geez, think ive used "its about love" enough times in these arguments?
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Old 09-05-2004   #20
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Re: 13 reasons not to allow gay marriage

Marriage has not always been between a man and a woman. That's a plain lie.

The American Anthropological Association's statement blasting Bush for that lie

And Bleed Black, you lied about the founding fathers all being Christian theocrats too. Not Jefferson. Not Franklin. Not Thomas Paine. Not John Adams. Not James Madison. Not George Washington.

Positive Atheism's fully researched and annotated database of nasty things that a lot of people including many founding fathers have said about your bullshit religion and the peril of mixing it with government

Do churches have some test to make sure only the most dishonest minds get in?

Last edited by HolokittyNX; 09-05-2004 at 01:16 AM. Reason: to avoid doubling
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