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Old 08-17-2009   #41
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

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Originally Said by pitcairnpete View Post
My point will always be that I do not care what you do in America, just never point at us, call us socialists and tell us that our system is wrong. Spend the energy instead on dealing with your own mess.

Its just typical, rather than worry about the upcoming choice you will have to make you would rather just sit and whine about how other people are wrong.
You're right. Trying to draw parallels between our two countries and their respective health care systems is ultimately ignorant.

It is hilarious that we call European countries "socialist" when we have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world.
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Old 08-17-2009   #42
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

Socialism seems to be a blanket term that infects any conversation with the single aim of quelling further discourse on the subject.

Some see socialism as a melioristic approach to a distopian society, some see it as a version of utilitarianism. I do not see it at all as I live in England and if anyone thinks that we live by a socialist doctrine then they are very much mistaken. To pay tax so that we can pick up medicine and pay for those that can not is always something I truly believe in. It will stand to protect those in my nation that need it the most. What America does, I do not care, it means nothing to me. Hear what you will, say what you shall. Just know that I will carry on doing what I am doing and when the time comes soon, it is not I that will have to deal with change, I am happy as things are. If I was not, I would have moved.

You make a strong point Yugoloth, just remember all, we have the means to move if we did not like it, but we honestly agree with it. We are the attacked at this point in England, and defend we shall.
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Old 08-17-2009   #43
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

I have a problem with the idea of a public option. The government has proved time and time again on many issues that once it gets the ball rolling, it's not going to be stopped. Sure, it starts out a public option, but then the government wages taxes on insurance companies as part of some ill-seated political crusade against EVIL CORPORATIONS!!!!1111 As that happens, they drive up the price of private insurance, and pretty soon everybody is on the public "option." That's when the scary stuff happens and they try to tell you what you can and cannot eat, smoke, or drink. That's what we're trying to prevent here, and frankly this bill probably won't pass. Republicans will filibuster as long as they have 1 democrat against the bill.

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I do not see it at all as I live in England and if anyone thinks that we live by a socialist doctrine then they are very much mistaken. To pay tax so that we can pick up medicine and pay for those that can not is always something I truly believe in. It will stand to protect those in my nation that need it the most. What America does, I do not care, it means nothing to me. Hear what you will, say what you shall. Just know that I will carry on doing what I am doing and when the time comes soon, it is not I that will have to deal with change, I am happy as things are. If I was not, I would have moved.
It's kind of weird that you preface your post by saying "we're not socialist" and then proceed to describe a downright socialist society in which money is redistributed to somehow make it more "fair" to those who for whatever reason can't pay the price for healthcare. It's nice that you can sleep at night assured that you're doing your part (or something) for others, but not everybody wants to do that. Some of us think it's downright intolerable to be forced to do that, and for good reason. I see a lot of problems in British health care and society in general (from a personal point of view) that I don't want to experience here. If you're fine with the way your society works, then I am sincerely glad for you. It wouldn't be fine with me, though, and that's where the opposition to how things are in Britain comes from in America.
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Old 08-17-2009   #44
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

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I have a problem with the idea of a public option. The government has proved time and time again on many issues that once it gets the ball rolling, it's not going to be stopped. Sure, it starts out a public option, but then the government wages taxes on insurance companies as part of some ill-seated political crusade against EVIL CORPORATIONS!!!!1111 As that happens, they drive up the price of private insurance, and pretty soon everybody is on the public "option." That's when the scary stuff happens and they try to tell you what you can and cannot eat, smoke, or drink. That's what we're trying to prevent here, and frankly this bill probably won't pass. Republicans will filibuster as long as they have 1 democrat against the bill.



It's kind of weird that you preface your post by saying "we're not socialist" and then proceed to describe a downright socialist society in which money is redistributed to somehow make it more "fair" to those who for whatever reason can't pay the price for healthcare. It's nice that you can sleep at night assured that you're doing your part (or something) for others, but not everybody wants to do that. Some of us think it's downright intolerable to be forced to do that, and for good reason. I see a lot of problems in British health care and society in general (from a personal point of view) that I don't want to experience here. If you're fine with the way your society works, then I am sincerely glad for you. It wouldn't be fine with me, though, and that's where the opposition to how things are in Britain comes from in America.

Then rather than attack another nation in how things are done, which is a seemingly well traveled path for your media at this point do you not think they could better combat this "red dawn" with coverage on the playmakers of this dire change? It just seems to me that we in England are getting alot of flack from people that need to spend their time on their own system.
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Old 08-17-2009   #45
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

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Originally Said by pitcairnpete View Post
Then rather than attack another nation in how things are done, which is a seemingly well traveled path for your media at this point do you not think they could better combat this "red dawn" with coverage on the playmakers of this dire change? It just seems to me that we in England are getting alot of flack from people that need to spend their time on their own system.
Obviously, yeah. I think it's pointless to attack a country for their own domestic decisions. The criticism of your system with relevance to the American debate may have evolved into a criticism of Britain itself, which is useless.
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Old 08-18-2009   #46
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

unless, as emperorchaos pointed out, you are old enough to have first hand knowledge of the wars of 1776 or 1812 or chumbawumba
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Old 08-18-2009   #47
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

It's getting really annoying how you people are using "Britain" and "England" as completely interchangable.

They're not, that is the equivalent of referring to the entire US as "Colorado" cos, you know, same difference.
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Old 08-18-2009   #48
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

^I understand why that would irritate you since you are from Scotland or live there. Apologies if I made that mistake, but I don't think I did. I think many are not taught the difference between Great Britain and England and I think a lot of people do mix up the two commonly, at least people who are not from there.
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Old 08-18-2009   #49
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

Oooh! History opportunity!

The larger of the two islands that make up the British isles is Great Britain. The Romans called the province that stretched from the English Channel in the south up north to Hadrian's Wall "Britannia" and that's where it gets its name. North of Hadrian's Wall was known as Caledonia (with the northernmost sections sometimes called Scotia from whence Scotland comes). Hibernia was the name given to Ireland by the Romans. The Caledonii (or proto-Scots, if you prefer) were one of the few tribes of peoples to successfully defend against the might of the Romans at the height of their hegemonic empire.

This all has nothing to do with the current debate. However, last year up to this past April I was heavily into studying ancient British history.
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Old 08-18-2009   #50
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

Man, it's been a while since we've had a good debate going, and honestly, I wish I wasn't at the beach right now so I'd have the time and motivation to read through this entire thread and make a decent response.. maybe when I get home in a couple days, but chances are I'll be too lazy.

Way to go AS, nonetheless(and hurray for rhyming!)
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Old 08-18-2009   #51
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

i think that the colorado analogy is a little off because one has to consider size ratios. i think it might be more accurate if you used all the western states. using the colorado analogy would be more accurate if it was said of london representing your entire country.

history side note i am a direct descendant of william wallace, captian james cook, charlemagne as well as several members of english royalty. does this mean you all should bow to me? it'll be just like king ralph.
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Old 08-20-2009   #52
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

William Wallace had no known heirs.

Also, Charlemagne is an asshole.

I don't know about Captain Cook though.

On topic, sorta:

I think that having these town hall meetings and the debate on health care in general during the summer months was stupid. It's hot, people are more likely to yell and argue.

"And, if we meet, we shall not scape a brawl;
For now, these hot days, is the mad blood stirring."
-William Shakespeare in Romeo and Juliet
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Old 08-20-2009   #53
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

Yeah, gibbering nonsense in town halls about a system Americans know little about except what Sarah Palin and Michael Moore tell them is always worse in the Summer heat.


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Old 08-21-2009   #54
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

Your ignorance is astounding.

Sure, there are many right-wingers who have no idea what they're talking about.... there are probably more left-wingers because I certainly see more leftist propaganda. All the right has is Fox News which, admittedly, is biased as all fuck.

I don't want a government. Logically, I don't want the government to have control of my health either. You can keep your authoritarian UK system with its high taxes and TV licenses. You can keep your security cameras everywhere. You can keep your arms... oh wait, no, you can't keep arms which means you have little to no hope of ever overthrowing a corrupt government. V for Vendetta anyone?

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Old 08-21-2009   #55
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

there are no clear heirs. there is speculation and to put this in lamens terms for you all. the pregnancy at the end of braveheart that is speculated to be either king edward's or william wallace's is the person i am a direct descendant of.

i'd prefer william wallace but a king is fine too. so to broaden your horizens: bow to me or moon the english with me
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Old 08-21-2009   #56
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

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Your ignorance is astounding.

Sure, there are many right-wingers who have no idea what they're talking about.... there are probably more left-wingers because I certainly see more leftist propaganda. All the right has is Fox News which, admittedly, is biased as all fuck.

I don't want a government. Logically, I don't want the government to have control of my health either. You can keep your authoritarian UK system with its high taxes and TV licenses. You can keep your security cameras everywhere. You can keep your arms... oh wait, no, you can't keep arms which means you have little to no hope of ever overthrowing a corrupt government. V for Vendetta anyone?

"Give me liberty or give me death."
-Patrick Henry

You really can't spot a wind-up can you? Glad I can prompt a little stimulating conversation around here for once in a while, even if I do have to act the cunt to do it.

Don't get me started on our Tv Licence, council taxes and speed cameras either. Couldn't agree more when it comes to those.
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