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Old 08-14-2009   #1
pitcairnpete
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In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goes.

What about all this health care shit though really. Please dont tell me that american cunts are that bothered by it, its a fucking good thing. To turn on my fucking news and see some fat redneck bitch say that in "ing er land" we wait six weeks for an appointment is total fucking shit. Fucking woman. Embrace what is coming please. That fat lump of shit holding a sign that says "England's way is death today" makes me so damn fucking mad.

To prove how good englands service is, my mother had to go on monday, she phoned up mon morning, was seen at 4 15pm that day. IT WAS THAT LATE AS SHE HAD WORK TO DO! IT COULD HAVE BEEN 14:15 and off we went.

They saw she had a bad knee at the docs, gave her some prescription drugs which we paid (for about 50 pills of 3 types) 40 dollars (18 pounds here) and we got a call from the hospital specialist asking us what time we needed to be seen next week.

I am not rich, I do not go private, nor does anyone, our, my, THE, health service is the greatest thing my country has.

It makes me so fucking mad. My grandad is eighty--fucking--three (excuse the tmesis) and they have done nothing but help him out and do everything to make sure he is ready for another ten years of life.

makes me so damn mad that americans would ridicule our health service.
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Old 08-14-2009   #2
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

I have heard and read that it can take ages of waiting to get a procedure done through the government, or that certain hospitals do not show proper care standards because they just do not care. Every type of medical care have flaws whether it is in the UK or in the US. Some hospitals or doctors dont give a shit whether you pay them or the government pays them.

Also don't you have problems with people being off sick when they really are not or claiming depression and getting paid, (of which many probably go to the pub with or spend it on other trivial things), and also get housing cheap? While there are people who work their ass off and pay for those people to pretend to be sick or mentally off. It is really great to have such a system where the truly sick and mentally ill can get income and have housing, but how many do you think abuse the system?
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Old 08-14-2009   #3
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

personally, I love the idea of public healthcare in America.


now ask yourself one question Pistol carrying Pete, do you care about the USA healthcare?
No and why not? You aren't a retard.
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Old 08-14-2009   #4
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

Oh no, here too? I don't want to hear anything about health care ever again. I had hoped this place would be my haven.

PCP, you have ruined it. No gold star for you.
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Old 08-14-2009   #5
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

you can have my gold star Pete. I'm not coming back here. So long.
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Old 08-15-2009   #6
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

i am interested by this. now your mom got sen pretty quick but she wasn't getting operated on.

now i am trying to be objective here and not my usual asshole self, cause i want to know.
what about a procedure like open heart surgery and it's wait time? god knows we got a lot of fat ass people here needing that.
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Old 08-15-2009   #7
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

you cant really pretend to have a mental illness and succeed, they have lie detectors now and people are kicked off income support.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...it-cheats.html
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Old 08-15-2009   #8
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

"In England we are being attacked by the Americans"

Yeah? How does that feel?

Remember 1776 and 1812!

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Originally Said by Jenn and tonic View Post
Oh no, here too? I don't want to hear anything about health care ever again. I had hoped this place would be my haven.

PCP, you have ruined it. No gold star for you.
Yes... the shit is everywhere right now. On every news channel. But I've noticed Fox News is forcing the issue more than most.

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Originally Said by David- View Post
you cant really pretend to have a mental illness and succeed, they have lie detectors now and people are kicked off income support.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...it-cheats.html
Wow. There's no significant scientific evidence that lie detectors work and now your country is using them to catch supposed cheaters? I am willing to bet that there have been many people denied benefits because of the faulty use of a polygraph machine.
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Old 08-15-2009   #9
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

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"In England we are being attacked by the Americans"

Yeah? How does that feel?

The coffins that got flown home a few years ago from out East didn't feel too good...


and the system is ridiculously easy to cheat. Fucks me right off, I work 45 hours a week only to get 35% of my wages skimmed off the top to pay for these little shit stains leeching from society. Easiest way to get disability allowance is say "my back hurts so bad I can barely get out of bed everyday", Doctors can't prove against it and the Brew can't go against them. Of course, when iro day rolls around they can dance all the way to the pub to spend it.
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Old 08-15-2009   #10
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

^Same thing with mental illness. Someone can say they are depressed and think that they really are and easily trick themselves and their GP that they are "sick" then get money and housing. Meanwhile, people who are probably really depressed but go on working to support their family, self, or maybe just because they want to, keep working which supports the liars and the worthless. Now they have to go to extremes like lie detectors because there is a problem with people lying. I hope they do use that and do catch the people who lie and screw over council.
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Old 08-15-2009   #11
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

Polygraph results are 96% accurate, the only people who can trick them are probably people who have been trained to do it but I don't think we need to worry about people with SAS-like training trying to get on a benefit that pays £40 a week.
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Old 08-15-2009   #12
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

but how many people really have to take them? unless the job center go around looking for people and get tips that someone is faking it then how are they to know? and how long you been on it now for? my brother was on it for a long time and after so many years he got kicked off it cos they are pushing down on things but not that hard i don't think!
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Old 08-16-2009   #13
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

You don't take them, they use them on you over the phone and when you go for your doctor interview at the main place in town. It's not a case of them "knowing" or not, everyone has to do it at some point.
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Old 08-16-2009   #14
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

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Polygraph results are 96% accurate,
They are only that accurate when they are filled with loaded questions.

Otherwise, polygraph results are only 65% accurate...that's about the same as chance.

People pushing that polygraph tests are accurate are members of the American Polygraph Association. These are people who would be out of a job if the world realized the real inaccuracy of polygraph testing.

There is no scientific evidence that suggests polygraphs are any better than guessing if someone is lying.

www.antipolygraph.org
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Old 08-16-2009   #15
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

An amazing rant on a different website:

"You finally got mad when.. when... wait for it... when the government decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick. Yes, illegal wars, lies, corruption, torture, stealing your tax dollars to make the rich richer, are all ok with you but helping other Americans... well fuck that. That about right? You know it is.

You people have all lost your fucking minds. You are selfish, greedy, obnoxious, narcissistic, and frankly... stupid. Your pathetic little misspelled protest signs are embarrassing. Maybe you ought to find the smart person in your midst and let them make up all the signs, cause man, you look like a bunch of idiots. Also you're ugly and your mother dresses you funny."
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Old 08-16-2009   #16
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

Screw the people protesting. They misrepresent the right. (Well, the part of the right that is right, anyhow.)

It is my belief that the American healthcare system with its emphasis on money, money, money is doing the world a favor by advancing medical technologies and drugs.

The countries with socialized medicine are benefiting from us. Maybe we should stop that. Secure international patents on all our drugs and technology. Let us see then how socialized medicine fairs when it lacks the capital to progress.
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Old 08-16-2009   #17
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

I suppose they probably do guess a lot, which is a shame since genuine people might lose their benefits over it. To be honest the best thing really isn't the tiny bit of money they give you, it's the help they give while you're on IB, I think if you take that help and actively show that you're trying to improve then they shouldn't hassle you too much.
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Old 08-16-2009   #18
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

Pete, you've learned something most of us here in America have already learned, and what that fat redneck should have learned, and that is: Don't watch television news.
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Old 08-16-2009   #19
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

Television news is where you're getting your information? The only people who watch TV news are fat rednecks as it is controlled by the right wing media machine.

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The countries with socialized medicine are benefiting from us. Maybe we should stop that. Secure international patents on all our drugs and technology. Let us see then how socialized medicine fairs when it lacks the capital to progress.
Countries benefit from us in every industry, and then all they do is bitch.
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Old 08-16-2009   #20
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Re: In England we are being attacked by the American view of health care. so here goe

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2009081402964

In America, Crazy Is a Preexisting Condition
Birthers, Town Hall Hecklers and the Return of Right-Wing Rage

By Rick Perlstein

Sunday, August 16, 2009

In Pennsylvania last week, a citizen, burly, crew-cut and trembling with rage, went nose to nose with his baffled senator: "One day God's going to stand before you, and he's going to judge you and the rest of your damned cronies up on the Hill. And then you will get your just deserts." He was accusing Arlen Specter of being too kind to President Obama's proposals to make it easier for people to get health insurance.

In Michigan, meanwhile, the indelible image was of the father who wheeled his handicapped adult son up to Rep. John Dingell and bellowed that "under the Obama health-care plan, which you support, this man would be given no care whatsoever." He pressed his case further on Fox News.

In New Hampshire, outside a building where Obama spoke, cameras trained on the pistol strapped to the leg of libertarian William Kostric. He then explained on CNN why the "tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of tyrants and patriots."

It was interesting to hear a BBC reporter on the radio trying to make sense of it all. He quoted a spokesman for the conservative Americans for Tax Reform: "Either this is a genuine grass-roots response, or there's some secret evil conspirator living in a mountain somewhere orchestrating all this that I've never met." The spokesman was arguing, of course, that it was spontaneous, yet he also proudly owned up to how his group has helped the orchestration, through sample letters to the editor and "a little bit of an ability to put one-pagers together."

The BBC also quoted liberal Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin's explanation: "They want to get a little clip on YouTube of an effort to disrupt a town meeting and to send the congressman running for his car. This is an organized effort . . . you can trace it back to the health insurance industry."

So the birthers, the anti-tax tea-partiers, the town hall hecklers -- these are "either" the genuine grass roots or evil conspirators staging scenes for YouTube? The quiver on the lips of the man pushing the wheelchair, the crazed risk of carrying a pistol around a president -- too heartfelt to be an act. The lockstep strangeness of the mad lies on the protesters' signs -- too uniform to be spontaneous. They are both. If you don't understand that any moment of genuine political change always produces both, you can't understand America, where the crazy tree blooms in every moment of liberal ascendancy, and where elites exploit the crazy for their own narrow interests.

In the early 1950s, Republicans referred to the presidencies of Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman as "20 years of treason" and accused the men who led the fight against fascism of deliberately surrendering the free world to communism. Mainline Protestants published a new translation of the Bible in the 1950s that properly rendered the Greek as connoting a more ambiguous theological status for the Virgin Mary; right-wingers attributed that to, yes, the hand of Soviet agents. And Vice President Richard Nixon claimed that the new Republicans arriving in the White House "found in the files a blueprint for socializing America."

When John F. Kennedy entered the White House, his proposals to anchor America's nuclear defense in intercontinental ballistic missiles -- instead of long-range bombers -- and form closer ties with Eastern Bloc outliers such as Yugoslavia were taken as evidence that the young president was secretly disarming the United States. Thousands of delegates from 90 cities packed a National Indignation Convention in Dallas, a 1961 version of today's tea parties; a keynote speaker turned to the master of ceremonies after his introduction and remarked as the audience roared: "Tom Anderson here has turned moderate! All he wants to do is impeach [Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl] Warren. I'm for hanging him!"

Before the "black helicopters" of the 1990s, there were right-wingers claiming access to secret documents from the 1920s proving that the entire concept of a "civil rights movement" had been hatched in the Soviet Union; when the landmark 1964 Civil Rights Act was introduced, one frequently read in the South that it would "enslave" whites. And back before there were Bolsheviks to blame, paranoids didn't lack for subversives -- anti-Catholic conspiracy theorists even had their own powerful political party in the 1840s and '50s.

The instigation is always the familiar litany: expansion of the commonweal to empower new communities, accommodation to internationalism, the heightened influence of cosmopolitans and the persecution complex of conservatives who can't stand losing an argument. My personal favorite? The federal government expanded mental health services in the Kennedy era, and one bill provided for a new facility in Alaska. One of the most widely listened-to right-wing radio programs in the country, hosted by a former FBI agent, had millions of Americans believing it was being built to intern political dissidents, just like in the Soviet Union.

So, crazier then, or crazier now? Actually, the similarities across decades are uncanny. When Adlai Stevenson spoke at a 1963 United Nations Day observance in Dallas, the Indignation forces thronged the hall, sweating and furious, shrieking down the speaker for the television cameras. Then, when Stevenson was walked to his limousine, a grimacing and wild-eyed lady thwacked him with a picket sign. Stevenson was baffled. "What's the matter, madam?" he asked. "What can I do for you?" The woman responded with self-righteous fury: "Well, if you don't know I can't help you."

The various elements -- the liberal earnestly confused when rational dialogue won't hold sway; the anti-liberal rage at a world self-evidently out of joint; and, most of all, their mutual incomprehension -- sound as fresh as yesterday's news. (Internment camps for conservatives? That's the latest theory of tea party favorite Michael Savage.)

The orchestration of incivility happens, too, and it is evil. Liberal power of all sorts induces an organic and crazy-making panic in a considerable number of Americans, while people with no particular susceptibility to existential terror -- powerful elites -- find reason to stoke and exploit that fear. And even the most ideologically fair-minded national media will always be agents of cosmopolitanism: something provincials fear as an outside elite intent on forcing different values down their throats.

That provides an opening for vultures such as Richard Nixon, who, the Watergate investigation discovered, had his aides make sure that seed blossomed for his own purposes. "To the Editor . . . Who in the hell elected these people to stand up and read off their insults to the President of the United States?" read one proposed "grass-roots" letter manufactured by the White House. "When will you people realize that he was elected President and he is entitled to the respect of that office no matter what you people think of him?" went another.

Liberals are right to be vigilant about manufactured outrage, and particularly about how the mainstream media can too easily become that outrage's entry into the political debate. For the tactic represented by those fake Nixon letters was a long-term success. Conservatives have become adept at playing the media for suckers, getting inside the heads of editors and reporters, haunting them with the thought that maybe they are out-of-touch cosmopolitans and that their duty as tribunes of the people's voices means they should treat Obama's creation of "death panels" as just another justiciable political claim. If 1963 were 2009, the woman who assaulted Adlai Stevenson would be getting time on cable news to explain herself. That, not the paranoia itself, makes our present moment uniquely disturbing.

It used to be different. You never heard the late Walter Cronkite taking time on the evening news to "debunk" claims that a proposed mental health clinic in Alaska is actually a dumping ground for right-wing critics of the president's program, or giving the people who made those claims time to explain themselves on the air. The media didn't adjudicate the ever-present underbrush of American paranoia as a set of "conservative claims" to weigh, horse-race-style, against liberal claims. Back then, a more confident media unequivocally labeled the civic outrage represented by such discourse as "extremist" -- out of bounds.

The tree of crazy is an ever-present aspect of America's flora. Only now, it's being watered by misguided he-said-she-said reporting and taking over the forest. Latest word is that the enlightened and mild provision in the draft legislation to help elderly people who want living wills -- the one hysterics turned into the "death panel" canard -- is losing favor, according to the Wall Street Journal, because of "complaints over the provision."

Good thing our leaders weren't so cowardly in 1964, or we would never have passed a civil rights bill -- because of complaints over the provisions in it that would enslave whites.
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