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Old 03-01-2011   #21
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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Originally Said by SketchImpressions View Post
Have you ever read the book "Death of the Liberal Class?" by Chris Hedges?
I think you would really enjoy this book, or at least find what it has to say very interesting. Our country has always been about twisting and controlling information to better suit the needed political climate of the time.
I agree with your opinion about propaganda being used to change the cultural mindset about gays, and that some lies have been told. But I really wish you would pick something else to be so passionate about. ya know..... like something that would actually improve lives or this country.
"some lies" ? Try ALL lies.

The homosexual activist movement is an extreme threat to both the psychological and physical health of our society, and especially our children.
Unlike other vices, it's being promoted as a virtue, and that is why I'm passionate in exposing the truths.

It's interesting that they ask why do we focus on their sex part of their lives so much. I think we could ask people who have embraced their same sex attraction as an identity that same question rather, for we (people who are heterosexually orientated) do not define ourselves so much according to what we're attracted to. Nor do we exploit suicides committed by obese kids and teens to promote eating junk food more in the name of "tolerance" for the obese. Nor do we have a flag signifying our heterosexuality that we swing around while demanding the govt to justify our feelings/behaviors. Nor do we depend on the homosexual community for practically everything, while at the same time accusing them of being hateful heterophobes.

Of course homosexuals are people who deserve respect and dignity like the rest of us. Often they are good people, capable of achievement and even heroism—again, like the rest of us. But we distinguish between the person and the behavior; and if a man or woman chooses to identify themself with what others regard as his/her defect, he/she must not accuse others of violating his/her dignity when they disagree with his/her lifestyle.
We should not encourage homosexuals in their weakness; nor harass them for their temptation.

It would be a victory of humanity to undo the 50+ years of lies, deceptions, and damage caused by the homosexual activist movement by persuading its members, without humiliating them, that they need not pretend that their vice is a virtue in order to belong to the community.
To put it another way, people experiencing same sex attraction/gender identity confusion should be encouraged to realize that homosexuality is unworthy of them.

Yes, those homosexual activist leaders such as Tim Gill, Dan Savage, Wayne Besen, & Rep Barney Frank in the "movement" will probably never soften their hearts, because they may have already given themselves over to the lusts of their flesh; however, those friends and relatives that we know who just want to live a quiet life and be left alone we must especially pray for, because they are the ones who have been and are being deceived.
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Last edited by Funk*Sonic*7; 04-29-2011 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 03-01-2011   #22
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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Originally Said by Funk*Sonic*7 View Post
"some lies" ? Try ALL lies.

The homosexual activist movement is an extreme threat to both the psychological and physical health of our society, and especially our children. Unlike other vices, it's being promoted as a virtue, and that is why I'm passionate in exposing the truths.

It's interesting that they ask why do we focus on their sex part of their lives so much. I think we could ask people who have embraced their same sex attraction as an identity that same question rather, for we (people who are heterosexually orientated) do not define ourselves so much according to what we're attracted to. Nor do we exploit suicides committed by obese kids and teens to promote eating junk food more in the name of "tolerance" for the obese. Nor do we have a flag signifying our heterosexuality that we swing around while demanding the govt to justify our feelings/behaviors. Nor do we depend on the homosexual community for practically everything, while at the same time accusing them of being hateful heterophobes.

Of course homosexuals are people who deserve respect and dignity like the rest of us. Often they are good people, capable of achievement and even heroism—again, like the rest of us. But we distinguish between the person and the behavior; and if a man or woman chooses to identify themself with what others regard as his/her defect, he/she must not accuse others of violating his/her dignity when they disagree with his/her lifestyle. We should not encourage homosexuals in their weakness; nor harass them for their temptation.

It would be a victory of humanity to undo the 50+ years of lies, deceptions, and damage caused by the homosexual activist movement by persuading its members, without humiliating them, that they need not pretend that their vice is a virtue in order to belong to the community. To put it another way, people experiencing same sex attraction/gender identity confusion should be encouraged to realize that homosexuality is unworthy of them. Yes, people ARE BETTER THAN HOMOSEXUALITY!

Yes, those homosexual activist leaders such as Tim Gill, Dan Savage, Wayne Besen, & Rep Barney Frank in the "movement" will probably never soften their hearts, because they may have already given themselves over to the lusts of their flesh; however, those friends and relatives that we know who just want to live a quiet life and be left alone we must especially pray for, because they are the ones who have been and are being deceived.
wow..... I can't believe you said some of that.
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Old 03-01-2011   #23
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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wow..... I can't believe you said some of that.
Twisted aint it? Its worrisome that such people exist.
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Old 03-01-2011   #24
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijjq8dcRqmI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlkS_8TJ1ck

Also, NARTH recently reported some good news. The California Assoc of Marriage & Family Therapists has rejected a proposed ban on reorientation therapies by activists.

http://narth.com/2011/02/the-califor...ion-therapies/

Please pass it on. This is significant, because so many already don't understand the details of homosexuality and GID, so those who are aware they have a choice should have a right to exercise it. Activists want to suppress former homosexuals and hide the truth from others afflicted.

Also, former homosexuals testify the truth in a Maryland court...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h94DIBPcy6A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II8BPZ-3aIE
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Old 03-03-2011   #25
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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Twisted aint it? Its worrisome that such people exist.
If you could reason with Religious people, there would be no religion.
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Old 03-03-2011   #26
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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Originally Said by SketchImpressions View Post
If you could reason with Religious people, there would be no religion.

I believe in GOD and have faith, but I haven't been in a church for anything but weddings and funerals in several years.
I pick up the bible a lot less than most religious people do. And one doesn't need to be a bible thumper to figure out what's really going on here.
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Old 03-03-2011   #27
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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Originally Said by Sketch
If you could reason with Religious people, there would be no religion.
It's ironic just how intolerant (well, at least selectively-tolerant) the philosophy of tolerance can be.

Not just in reference to this statement, obviously. *Sigh*
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Last edited by Zanahoria_Picante; 03-03-2011 at 09:42 PM. Reason: Tonin' it down a bit. Just tonin' it on down.
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Old 03-03-2011   #28
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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Originally Said by Funk*Sonic*7 View Post
"some lies" ? Try ALL lies.
Yes, those homosexual activist leaders such as Tim Gill, Dan Savage, Wayne Besen, & Rep Barney Frank in the "movement" will probably never soften their hearts, because they may have already given themselves over to the lusts of their flesh; however, those friends and relatives that we know who just want to live a quiet life and be left alone we must especially pray for, because they are the ones who have been and are being deceived.
Lusts of the what? Dayum. Sounds alright to me.
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Old 03-03-2011   #29
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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Lusts of the what? Dayum. Sounds alright to me.
Your mom's face is "the what."
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Old 03-03-2011   #30
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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Originally Said by Zanahoria_Picante View Post
It's ironic just how intolerant (well, at least selectively-tolerant) the philosophy of tolerance can be.

Not just in reference to this statement, obviously. *Sigh*
I completely agree. And thus we see my (specific) problem with most every nuance or organized society/culture/religion/living. It's become too much about classifying (things in reality) humanity and behavior instead of just accepting the beautiful with the ugly. Need both extremes to experience the spectrum. and who is to say anyway that we see the same shade of blue in our understanding? Why worry about inconsistencies when it all collectively adds to the experience? And it's not like these differences are truly hurting the quality of your life, not when we now live in a world where you can simply find a new place/mind set/ reality/ community to dwell in. Instead we are all to obsessed with changing/influencing/and classifying everything to just shut up appreciate and live.

i guess this is my problem. I would rather not try to understand the world but more try to understand where i can fit into it. because its all going to hell with or with out me.

And i guess I really don't care how anyone else is living their life so long as their perception of reality is positive.

Honestly, the western world is obsessed with going out and liberating, or assimilating these other peoples to our values on "life" Fuck it! let everyone reach their own self actualizaton. Trust me they can liberate themselves. The exchange of information is readily available, and even in the places it isnt. Everyone is rght where they are suposed to be. Just let it be organic.
alright i am done, this is why i live in the woods away from ya'll, to easy to care with not much point.

Ideals are like dicks. "It's cool that you have one, great if your proud of it, but don't try to shove it down my throat."
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Old 03-04-2011   #31
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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Originally Said by SketchImpressions View Post
I completely agree. And thus we see my (specific) problem with most every nuance or organized society/culture/religion/living. It's become too much about classifying (things in reality) humanity and behavior instead of just accepting the beautiful with the ugly. Need both extremes to experience the spectrum. and who is to say anyway that we see the same shade of blue in our understanding? Why worry about inconsistencies when it all collectively adds to the experience? And it's not like these differences are truly hurting the quality of your life, not when we now live in a world where you can simply find a new place/mind set/ reality/ community to dwell in. Instead we are all to obsessed with changing/influencing/and classifying everything to just shut up appreciate and live.

i guess this is my problem. I would rather not try to understand the world but more try to understand where i can fit into it. because its all going to hell with or with out me.

And i guess I really don't care how anyone else is living their life so long as their perception of reality is positive.

Honestly, the western world is obsessed with going out and liberating, or assimilating these other peoples to our values on "life" Fuck it! let everyone reach their own self actualizaton. Trust me they can liberate themselves. The exchange of information is readily available, and even in the places it isnt. Everyone is rght where they are suposed to be. Just let it be organic.
alright i am done, this is why i live in the woods away from ya'll, to easy to care with not much point.

Ideals are like dicks. "It's cool that you have one, great if your proud of it, but don't try to shove it down my throat."
You're basically saying live & let live, which is applicable to an extent. But a responsible society and humanity on the whole, has the onus to implement norms and values conducive to our survival, or else we would perish.

If everyone refused to oppose destructive measures or policy, the consequences will be severe. We can see this has happened in history already, though much of what is known about history by the masses is severely censored, and for this we will eventually all pay a price.

As for organic...nature and circumstances at times deliver situations that, whilst organic, aren't necessarily good in themselves. It's the same thing when people say that people with same sex attraction should be "true to their feelings." This sentiment seems like a good thing in itself, but like everything in a physical and spiritual world, is always limited by conditions. That is, it cannot be applied to situations that are anti-progressive and harmful. An existing situation that is encouraged when it is clearly undesirable will only result in detriment to us as a species.

And do you know exactly WHAT the homosexual activist lobby is doing to the Western world? They are very much shoving their unnatural desires and identity politics onto others, and trying to alter reality. The consequences of such will not lead to a spontaneous, "organic" transformation of humans and their norms. That's a fairytale, not grounded in practicality or reality.

Again, no one is dictating what people do in private, but a responsible society MUST forbid what is wrong and destructive, and offer assistance for undesirable outcomes nature/circumstance. It's about the empowerment and improvement of the individual and society together.
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Old 03-04-2011   #32
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

FUNKSONIC. SHUT UP FOR A SECOND. JUST SHUT UP! SHUT UUUUP!!!

It's my turn to talk now. SHE WAS ADDRESSING ME, NOT YOU.


TO SKETCH (and now to completely contradict myself):

I see what you're saying. But I don't think it is necessary to abandon ideals, abandon conviction, abandon truth--in order to live freely and kindly; all those things--those radical things--should just be presented in a loving way.

But, you see, people are inconsistent (rofl), and often fail to live up to that standard, and instead (text-)scream at people.

And I don't think belief is without reason; it is a different form of reason, God's reason, as opposed to human reason. That is why I found the quasi-*philosophy of "tolerance" inconsistent, because it seems to frequently only "selectively-tolerate," especially concerning religion.

But life is not all reason--of any kind. It seems there needs to be a balance between conviction and compassion.

* "Quasi-" because it really isn't itself a philosophy, but kind of a...(political, philosophical, ambiguous) mood.

...

*Sigh*

Funk, I'm sorry. Just feeling rather irascible, at the moment, and dislike being interrupted when responding to someone directly above me. Hence, irascible.
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Old 03-04-2011   #33
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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Originally Said by Zanahoria_Picante View Post
FUNKSONIC. SHUT UP FOR A SECOND. JUST SHUT UP! SHUT UUUUP!!!

It's my turn to talk now. SHE WAS ADDRESSING ME, NOT YOU.


TO SKETCH (and now to completely contradict myself):

I see what you're saying. But I don't think it is necessary to abandon ideals, abandon conviction, abandon truth--in order to live freely and kindly; all those things--those radical things--should just be presented in a loving way.

But, you see, people are inconsistent (rofl), and often fail to live up to that standard, and instead (text-)scream at people.

And I don't think belief is without reason; it is a different form of reason, God's reason, as opposed to human reason. That is why I found the quasi-*philosophy of "tolerance" inconsistent, because it seems to frequently only "selectively-tolerate," especially concerning religion.

But life is not all reason--of any kind. It seems there needs to be a balance between conviction and compassion.

* "Quasi-" because it really isn't itself a philosophy, but kind of a...(political, philosophical, ambiguous) mood.

...

*Sigh*

Funk, I'm sorry. Just feeling rather irascible, at the moment, and dislike being interrupted when responding to someone directly above me. Hence, irascible.
haha no problem, but don't forget about the little "quote" button
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Old 03-04-2011   #34
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

^ Maybe if you had realized your mom's face is a quote button this would not have been an issue.

(Nope. Too lazy.)
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Old 03-04-2011   #35
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

Funk, I am going to edit your post so that you may read it the same way i am interpreting it. Remember this is just me, and i clearly stated my whacked view on how i plan to coexist with the world.

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Originally Said by Funk*Sonic*7 View Post
You're basically saying live & let live, which is applicable to an extent. But a responsible society and humanity on the whole, has the onus to implement norms and values conducive to our survival, or else we would perish.
It's all Mr. Roggers if you want to Live and let Live, so long as you are living in accordance to the standards of my perceptions of morality and usefulness. And it's my job as "life" police through my beliefs in God to make sure you don't loose your way, or forget your place as a baby making machine. Because in the end its about the Kids, and continuing my "ideals" and legacy of moral high ground to better stratify the haves/have not's the good ones/ from the bad ones is just a side effect that works in all of "humanity's" favor.

If everyone refused to oppose destructive measures or policy, the consequences will be severe. We can see this has happened in history already, though much of what is known about history by the masses is severely censored, and for this we will eventually all pay a price.
Because if we don't limit peoples freedom to love and live and experience this world through their own unique perspective and choices we will spiral into anarchy!

As for organic...nature and circumstances at times deliver situations that, whilst organic, aren't necessarily good in themselves.Because logicaly we need to keep fucking and making children!! There is tons of room on the planet still usable and every person is capable of loving caring and raising good children. Don't worry about Homosexuality being prevalent in nature as a defense against over population. That's what the fake scientist want you to believe. You see those Male bunnies are just confused by all the pro gay bunny rabbit propaganda out there. It's the same thing when people say that people with same sex attraction should be "true to their feelings." This sentiment seems like a good thing in itself, but like everything in a physical and spiritual world, is always limited by conditions.Because it may seem like a good idea to love someone for who they are and look past our bodies (which we didn't pick) but it really isn't okay, because people who believe as I do are going to be sure you don't get to enjoy the only exsistance you may ever have just to be sure i am covering my ass in case there is a hell or moral high ground. That is, it cannot be applied to situations that are anti-progressive and harmful. An existing situation that is encouraged when it is clearly undesirable will only result in detriment to us as a species. once again, although it may bring you happiness in life and give you reason to exist in the world its a big no no because you are not propagating the all mighty human species. And even tho the way you live your life in private has no real effect on how i live my life in private it still keeps me awake at night.

And do you know exactly WHAT the homosexual activist lobby is doing to the Western world? They are very much shoving their unnatural desires and identity politics onto othersMuch like every culture/idea/religion/and school of thought has ever done! except the homos are trying to do it with pride! they are not activly converting but instead having fun doing their "own thing" that can't be allowed, its seducing the young'ns!, and trying to alter realityBecause now people understand there is a choice! you don't have to do like everyone else is!! this is not okay!. The consequences of such will not lead to a spontaneous, "organic" transformation of humans and their norms. That's a fairytale, not grounded in practicality or realityBecause homosexuality has only existed for the last 100 years infecting the western world! and the openness of today's homo community is not a result of a long history of abuse, genocide, hate, intolerance, and secret counter cultures all over the world, and certianly can't be compared to the struggles of Jews, Blacks, Wemon, or children.... .

Again, no one is dictating what people do in privateExcept that's EXACTLY what I think needs to be done by my community and government. Because as I have said before people are BETTER than this plague of Homosexuality and it's time to liberate them and bring them back into the fold of society, but a responsible society MUST forbid what is wrong and destructive, and offer assistance for undesirable outcomes nature/circumstance. It's about the empowerment and improvement of the individual and society together.Because Homosexual people have NO value what so ever in contributing as they are to the world.
So next time you post, take a few more minuets to consider what message it is you are sending people. You can be as eloquent as you like, Hate will always read as Hate.


Zp-
Quote:
I see what you're saying. But I don't think it is necessary to abandon ideals, abandon conviction, abandon truth--in order to live freely and kindly; all those things--those radical things--should just be presented in a loving way.
I agree. I do not discredit, or lack, ideals conviction or the search for truth. I just get tired of being the only one who listens and attempts to understand. Only then to try and share and have my thought be immediately discredited just because other people cling to tightly to their filters.

I believe the only truths in life are the natural ones. All the variations of Animal life with cause and effect do not define a truth, but instead provide subjects to experiment and test the bounds of reality. Nothing we do is WRONG because that is a human idea. we can't reverse gravity, now that would be wrong in the sense that it defies what we know reality to be capable of.
I believe absolutely anything is possible.
(This school of thought for me has developed as a coping mechanism to deal with the rest of humanity. All my problems lie there. I have no beef with the planet of anything it throws my way. So this allows me to be happy for other people content in their own ideas.)
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Old 03-04-2011   #36
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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Originally Said by SketchImpressions View Post
Funk, I am going to edit your post so that you may read it the same way i am interpreting it. Remember this is just me, and i clearly stated my whacked view on how i plan to coexist with the world.



So next time you post, take a few more minuets to consider what message it is you are sending people. You can be as eloquent as you like, Hate will always read as Hate.


Zp-


I agree. I do not discredit, or lack, ideals conviction or the search for truth. I just get tired of being the only one who listens and attempts to understand. Only then to try and share and have my thought be immediately discredited just because other people cling to tightly to their filters.

I believe the only truths in life are the natural ones. All the variations of Animal life with cause and effect do not define a truth, but instead provide subjects to experiment and test the bounds of reality. Nothing we do is WRONG because that is a human idea. we can't reverse gravity, now that would be wrong in the sense that it defies what we know reality to be capable of.
I believe absolutely anything is possible.
(This school of thought for me has developed as a coping mechanism to deal with the rest of humanity. All my problems lie there. I have no beef with the planet of anything it throws my way. So this allows me to be happy for other people content in their own ideas.)
You have taken my comments out of context. You have assumed that I am trying to legislate good behavior, but don't seem to mind when negative behaviors get promoted. It can't be a one way street. I want the government out of our private lives completely. If you don't want them to legislate to encourage people to empower themselves to overcome or rise above their bad behaviors because that responsibility lies solely on the individual, then I can agree with that.

But that would also mean that society or certain segments of society should not call on the government and/or other powerful institutions to legislate or promote behaviors that have negative outcomes such as no-fault divorce, homosexuality, etc. What I wrote before can only be perceived to be hate when taken out of context.
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Old 03-04-2011   #37
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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Originally Said by Funk*Sonic*7 View Post
You have taken my comments out of context. You have assumed that I am trying to legislate good behavior, but don't seem to mind when negative behaviors get promoted. It can't be a one way street. I want the government out of our private lives completely. If you don't want them to legislate to encourage people to empower themselves to overcome or rise above their bad behaviors because that responsibility lies solely on the individual, then I can agree with that. But that would also mean that society should not call on the government and other poweful institutions to legislate or promote behaviors that have negative outcomes such as no-fault divorce, homosexuality, etc. Hate is only hate when taken out of context.

oh no. I understand thispoint you have been trying to make ^
the point is you have been trying to make it the wrong way. Instead of stating that right there and leaving the conversation alone so it could mature into a biger debate, in the beginning you have gone onto tangents on your personal feelings about homosexuality.
like this
Quote:
There is, in fact, a large body of evidence, which shows that homosexual relationships [B]are not the equal[B/] of what heterosexual marriage is.
I selected thsi because i don't believe it, and because if you really want to examine both sides, well here i am giving you a diffrent perspective.

Your argument is alot less about the government staying out of peoples lives, and alot more about intolerance to the gay community. Which dose exists, will exists and has an important role in this country and the world.

it really dosnt matter if i chop up your quotes and take stuff out of context because your veiw is still being plainly heard.

You think Our Country needs to protect the traditional male female gender roles and their intended procreation functions, while staying out of peoples personal lives and promoting the family unit.
gotcha. now try and see my point a view. I dare you to try.
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Old 03-04-2011   #38
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

Okay, I'm going to try and cover a lot of ground here...

True equality and tolerance applies to how we treat people we disagree with, not how we treat ideas we think false. True tolerance and equality involves three elements: (1) permitting or allowing (2) an idea or point of view one disagrees with (3) while respecting the person in the process.

Notice that we can't truly tolerate someone unless we disagree with him. This is critical. We don't "tolerate" people who share already our views. They're already on our side, so there's nothing to put up with. Tolerance is reserved for those we think are wrong, yet we still choose to treat decently and with respect.

True tolerance and equality is about being egalitarian regarding persons, and elitist regarding ideas. The pro-homosexual activists distortion of tolerance and equality means be egalitarian regarding ideas, while elitist regarding persons. That is NOT equality.

This applies to feelings/ideas/desires etc, but doesn't apply to behaviors or actions, because not all behaviors/actions are equal...some are good, bad, and some more equal than others. But behaviors/actions, regardless of consent, have outcomes that even when just seem to affect the individual, eventually affect others...whether it be physically, emotionally, and/or financially


"A large body of evidence, which shows that homosexual relationships are not the equal of what heterosexual marriage is."

People who are TRULY compassionate to the people experiencing same sex attraction, will not continue to be in denial and not be afraid to tell others simply what they don't want to hear. They will recognize the straight upward trend of HIV, STDs, and cancer rates in the homosexual and lesbian community as a direct consequence of homosexual lifestyle, of which they only acct for 3-4% of the population. They won't continue to ignore the studies have shown that even in homosexual-friendly societies like the Netherlands, Canada, New Zealand, Brazil, the state of Massachusetts, and the Castro District in San Fran, that conclusively show that homosexuals STILL suffer from psychological problems at least 4Xs greater than average persons. They also won't overlook the truth that crimes on homosexuals occur by other homosexuals far greater and with far more frequency than from heteros as reported by the NCADV and the pro-homosexual org NCAVP as noted in my Manufactured Epidemic thread.

This is a fact that comon sense also dictates. The definition and purpose of marriage based solely on the biological reproduction and the unity of spouses in the interest of the education of the rising generation constitutes the two intelligible ends of the reproductive organs: and together reproduction and education compromise the essence of marriage and the natural family. People who identitfy as homosexual cannot do that without depending on the heterosexuality and the govt, so it is not equal to marriage. Therefore, they can call their partnership anything they want, but it's not marriage, nor is it equal to marriage or the procreative design/complimentary opposites of heterosexuality.

When two women claim they are capable of having the same relationship as a man and woman do, that implies that a man's contribution to relationships, marriage, and family is replaceable and unnecessary. And two men claiming their relationship is just as much a relationship or marriage as a heterosexual committed relationship, that implication dismisses any contribution of every woman, thus also claiming women are inconsequential to relationships, marriage, and family. This is REAL gender discrimination.

Nobody is born homosexual, and nobody who has those feelings or desires chooses it either. It's a developmental and social issue.

The American Psychiatric Association (APA) is NOT a legitimate organization on this issue, as people mistakenly assume, for they have been dominated and bullied by homosexual activists since the early 70s and still continue to do so. In fact, their decision to remove homosexuality from the list of disorders in 1973 was NOT based on any scientific objectivity, but a result of homosexual activist bullying, threats, and coercion.
I have detailed documentation of this right from homosexual activists and their sources themselves. And yet, many mainstream medical orgs and scientific orgs either out of intimidation or political correctness (such as the Americam Association of Pediatrics, just as one example) when tackling issues of homosexuality, irresponsibly refer to whatever the APA puts forth.

Homosexual activists groups such as the HRC and GLSEN work on a budget over over $100 million a year where they go around legislations and public schools to push their identity politics on them. Groups such as NARTH and PFOX only receive $1-3 million a year funding, and they do not seek out poeple. People come to them for help, because they don't want to have their same sex attraction anymore for their own personal reasons.
Yet, homosexual activists want to stop those individual rights to free autonomy and free agency. NARTH gets lambasted and ridiculed by the pro-homosexual mainstream media based on homosexual activists trumpeting slip ups or the people who gave up on therapy. I guess we should shut down every shrink who treats persons for depression when a percentage of their clients gives up on therapy or it doesn't work out for them. (It took me 3 different counselors before I found the right one that finally helped me with insomnia). There are so many factors and variables involved when it comes to therapy. Yet, after the constant smear campaign and not receiving remotely near the funds that homosexual activist groups get, NARTH for some reason still receives an ongoing of around 135 clients per week COMING TO THEM for help to diminish their same sex attractions and find their heterosexual potential.

Homosexuality is a maladaptive feeling/behavior as a result of psychological trauma or a disturbance having to do with gender. Another words, it is a developmental issue. So I agree that the feelings/desires of same sex attraction is not something these people choose. Acting on it, however, is a choice. The homosexual "coming out" story isn't about finding who you are; it's a sexualized emotional place people come to when they have given up and have let their issues take control of who they are, whether they realize it consciously or not, rather than learning to overcome them.

Studies have shown (such as the extensive Findings From the Netherlands Mental Health Survey and Incidence Study; Theo G. M. Sandfort, PhD; Ron de Graaf, PhD; Rob V. Bijl, PhD; Paul Schnabel, PhD 2001) that even in the completely pro-homosexual friendly societies, homosexuals still experience psychological problems 4Xs more than the average hetero, as well as medical consequences too. So "discrimination" is irrelevant to their problems. The constant drum beat of "homophobia" and "discrimination" is a gross over-exagerration used merely as a talking point meant to silence anybody who begs to question anyways.

Lets say a "homosexual" gene did exist. Well, due to the much higher levels and risks of medical consequences as a result of homosexual sex in both homosexual males and females, the discovery of a "homosexual" gene, would only be MUCH more of a reason to not engage in that behavior.
Just like if an alcoholic gene was found, that would be more of a reason not to take the first drink.

Orientation is NOT an identity. Nobody is born with a sexual orientation. People are NOT sexual at birth. Only the fraudulent and criminal "science" of Alfred Kinsey claims such a dangerous thing. Even heterosexual behavior is ultimately chosen, but the biology and physiology of a man and a woman tells us what the true feelings and nature of our orientation is or at least should be...heterosexual.

Male bodies have male sex organs. Female bodies have female sex organs. DNA self-evidently ordered the production of these complimentary sexual parts...and, the only reason human bodies have sexual feelings at all, is because of the chemical and hormonal process, rooted in its procreative, heterosexual design. All studies which have claimed to find an immutable cause for same-sex attraction and sodomy have crumbled under the scrutiny of peer review.

Sexuality is based on our gender. It isn't a ghost in a machine like homosexuals would like to believe. It's interesting how many of them claim they were "born that way," but then will promote this idea of "queer theory"...those two things are in complete contradiction of one another.
Anyway, gender differences exist; they are a fundamental reality of our biology and impact our psychology. Our maleness and femaleness is a key aspect to our personhood. Acknowledging, rather than ignoring (or worse denying), gender differences is the only intellectually honest response to this reality.

And privations, such as infertility, or the choice to not have children, does not change the formal aspect of the subject. Just because a man is blind does not change the fact that he is a man, nor does it change the fact that the primary intelligible end of the eye is color and light. The whole is self-evidently greater than the sum of its parts. And even when one or more parts fail to function properly, the whole remains what it is. The existence of privation does not change the form or intelligible end of the whole, it simply blocks the whole from succesfully realizing its full potential. They are simply deficiencies in actuality, we understand this, and as a result we seek to cure blindness and other ailments when and wherever we can.
This agreement is implicit in the whole field of science and medicine. When a part fails to function properly we attempt to correct it, rather than change our conceptualization of what it is altogether.

Therefore, reproductive-type acts are within the bounds of a permanaent committed relationship, whether or not they are reproductive in effect.
They retain a rational and most intelligible, and not merely just emotional nature. Therefore, they are human acts that are the product of a unified human agent and a single unified reproductive principle made up of a two in one flesh substance, (man/father plays form and woman/mother matter) and they remain marital, even when they fail to result in actual reproduction, due to privations beyond the control of the couple involved.

Gender differences are complementary; individuals, our collective humanity, and society as a whole, all benefit from masculine and feminine characteristics. Our design orientates us towards the opposite sex. We are better for having men with a clear understanding of their masculinity and women with a clear understanding of their femininity.

People experiencing same sex attraction conceptualize themselves as an abstract consciousness inhabiting an impersonal body...they think they're a ghost in a machine. But in fact, the procreative physiological design of the body is self-evident and is what dictates our sexuality/orientation, so any encouragement into gender bending in any way is neither ethical or healthy, and is therefore the reason why people with same sex attraction and gender identity confusion are more prone to psychological problems such as suicide ideation, and not because of the social construct of "homophobia."

http://www.gendermatters.org.au/Home...w%20res%29.pdf

Gender identity confusion and same sex attraction does exist in a small minority of individuals. It is a pathology that warrants a compassionate response. However it is not the 'normative' experience, and is not therefore a paradigm upon which to drive social policy and institutions.
Gender as complimentary opposites is a basic physiological reality, which unfortunately has been politicized. This is what is not helpful, and what is truly dehumanizing.


"You think Our Country needs to protect the traditional male female gender roles and their intended procreation functions, while staying out of peoples personal lives and promoting the family unit"

Unhealthy life choices shouldn't be encouraged and promoted. Most vices aren't promoted as virtues like homosexuality is.
We should learn from the anti-smoking ads and apply it to homosexuality, if and when our society finally becomes honest and truthful about it.
I make mistakes everyday, but I am not out there teaching people that my errors are not errors, and that others should practice those errors as well.

Codifying homosexuality to a protected class does have negative effects on the natural family. It does elevate it above heterosexual relationships, yet it depends on heterosexuals for everything. Everything about the homosexual movement is a walking contradiction. And I'm all for the government getting out of out private lives. But if that happens, then all the homosexual activists that are constantly pushing for legislation to codify their private sex lives as valid by the government onto society, continue to exploit child and teen suicides to push their sexual identity politics on children and teens, and use the media disproportionately portraying most characters with same sex attraction as harmless heroic victims turned hero, the best friend who always gives the best advice, the one who is most successful, always dresses nice, and always acts as the voice of reason, compared to how the media always depicts people with straight orientation as unstable, struggling, cheaters, fat slobs, spineless cowards, and how about the homosexual activists always trying to stop people who don't want to have same sex attractions from pursuing therapy, etc...all this is what needs to stop. So when all that stops, then you will hear a lot less out of me on this issue, and I will be all for the exclusion of politics from our private lives. I'm only asking for a two-way street, and that everybody accepts equally their fair share of accountability and responsibility.

Here's a former homosexual thats give us his candid perspective on many of the topics dealing with homosexuality, as well as more clarification on what I just wrote in this post...


http://americansfortruth.com/uploads...eg-Quinlan.mp3
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Last edited by Funk*Sonic*7; 03-05-2011 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 03-04-2011   #39
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

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Originally Said by SketchImpressions View Post
I agree. I do not discredit, or lack, ideals conviction or the search for truth. I just get tired of being the only one who listens and attempts to understand. Only then to try and share and have my thought be immediately discredited just because other people cling to tightly to their filters.

I believe the only truths in life are the natural ones. All the variations of Animal life with cause and effect do not define a truth, but instead provide subjects to experiment and test the bounds of reality. Nothing we do is WRONG because that is a human idea. we can't reverse gravity, now that would be wrong in the sense that it defies what we know reality to be capable of.
I believe absolutely anything is possible.
(This school of thought for me has developed as a coping mechanism to deal with the rest of humanity. All my problems lie there. I have no beef with the planet of anything it throws my way. So this allows me to be happy for other people content in their own ideas.)
Dear girl--Do not think yourself to be the only one who listens and tries to understand. Think it not. You just may not notice the others who try because the ones who do not often drown them out.

[/Almost Gandalf]

A genuine desire to discuss this and read your answers (whilst offering some thourghts) leads me to ask:

How can you say that you do not lack ideals and say nothing we do is wrong? There is no such thing as empirical morality--as you said, only humans are responsible for (either constructing and/or obeying [a supernatural]) morality. Indeed, abstract morality is applied to (some would say imposed on) or possibly taken from (quite nihilistically) empirical life. Further, how do you reconcile denying the validity of any form of human morality with saying "I believe the only truths in life are the natural ones"? What would you say is a "natural truth"?

What can the natural world tell us about morality? Again, as you said, there is no "wrong" in the natural world because there is no right; the only standard is the anarchy of natural order and motion. And if there is no morality and there is no truth beyond the anarchic, non-sentient operations of the natural universe, then all that remains is every sense of Nihilism:

“A man said to the universe: "Sir, I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me a sense of obligation.”
--Stephen Crane


In essence, if the natural universe were to speak to us, it would be incredibly rude about it.

Anyway, the natural universe is innocuous in its silence--no one is offended by organic things (except by ferns)--but it also therefore offers no explanation for itself.

More than that, what would you say about things that are obviously, egregiously (hyperbolically) wrong, like murder, stealing, and rape?

(Orbviously, you are not obligated to answer all or any of those questions, though I would like to read what you have to say; either way, just thought I'd t'row 'em out there, for they might be relevant-ish.)
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Old 03-05-2011   #40
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Re: Obama Disses DOMA

Funk, I have every intention of responding to your post in full. But that was ALOT to respond to. sooooo ZP first.



Quote:
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Dear girl--Do not think yourself to be the only one who listens and tries to understand. Think it not. You just may not notice the others who try because the ones who do not often drown them out.

[/Almost Gandalf]

^ That was great! And much needed to hear.

A genuine desire to discuss this and read your answers (whilst offering some thourghts) leads me to ask:

How can you say that you do not lack ideals and say nothing we do is wrong? There is no such thing as empirical morality--as you said, only humans are responsible for (either constructing and/or obeying [a supernatural]) morality. Indeed, abstract morality is applied to (some would say imposed on) or possibly taken from (quite nihilistically) empirical life. Further, how do you reconcile denying the validity of any form of human morality with saying "I believe the only truths in life are the natural ones"? What would you say is a "natural truth"?

Right! well I never claimed my logic made any kind of sense. Only that it has developed in me, due to my experiences and unique perspective, to become a fancy coping mechanism to deal with reality. Much like anyone else. And after reading up on Nihilism this morning i would say I am almost...? a Nihilist thinker except that I cling to certain hopes about human consciousness being capable of evolving to a point where we can exist in all reality not just this one. But I know that thought is inconsequential to the here and now because it holds nothing but nonsenses as we know it. So... by saying "Natural Truth" i was meaning a "law of nature" (Latin: lex naturalis) this has been described as a law whose content is set by nature and that therefore is universal. which is of course in opposition to "man made laws." so to quote wiki; "Although natural law is often conflated with "man made law" the two are distinct in that natural law is a view that certain rights or values are inherent in or universally cognizable by virtue of human reason or human nature, while common law is the legal tradition whereby certain rights or values are legally cognizable by virtue of judicial recognition or articulation."
Now, the two are in opposition but work together to from a general understanding. I don't "deny the validity of any form of human morality" I simply take into perspective that Human Morality is a Jurisprudence. Which means its a culminaton of Natural Law, "Legal Positivism, which by contrast to natural law, holds that there is no necessary connection between law and morality and that the force of law comes from some basic social facts although positivists differ on what those facts are. Legal Realism is a third theory of jurisprudence which argues that the real world practice of law is what determines what law is; the law has the force that it does because of what legislators, judges, and executives do with it. Critical Legal Studies is a younger theory of jurisprudence that has developed since the 1970s which is primarily a negative thesis that the law is largely contradictory and can be best analyzed as an expression of the policy goals of the dominant social group." - wiki again So! It is easier for me to accept Natural laws as truth because they are not clouded by any social factors. This doesn't mean i don't thin social law has a place, am glad we have developed it as far as we have, but my issue with it is that last bit I quoted, "that the law is largely contradictory and can be best analyzed as an expression of the policy goals of the dominant social group." It's the social laws that get in the way of living I have a problem with. Like this nonsense about gay marriage.


What can the natural world tell us about morality? Again, as you said, there is no "wrong" in the natural world because there is no right; the only standard is the anarchy of natural order and motion. And if there is no morality and there is no truth beyond the anarchic, non-sentient operations of the natural universe, then all that remains is every sense of Nihilism:

“A man said to the universe: "Sir, I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me a sense of obligation.”
--Stephen Crane


In essence, if the natural universe were to speak to us, it would be incredibly rude about it.

Anyway, the natural universe is innocuous in its silence--no one is offended by organic things (except by ferns)--but it also therefore offers no explanation for itself.

More than that, what would you say about things that are obviously, egregiously (hyperbolically) wrong, like murder, stealing, and rape?

^ exactly. Well I do not discredit the need for law and order to protect people from violent chaos. it's the law and order to protect people from ideas and life styles i disagree with. Because as much as i am a almost Nihilist thinker I believe everyone has an equal fair right to live and make choices. So yeah i am against Violence, Rape, Murder, Pedophilia, Human trafficking, Kidnapping, what ever, against all that. And believe you have a right to lawful protection provided by your community/state/country. we could go into a whole different debate however on what i believe about how these crimes are punished and deemed serious in this country...

(Orbviously, you are not obligated to answer all or any of those questions, though I would like to read what you have to say; either way, just thought I'd t'row 'em out there, for they might be relevant-ish.)
Thanks for asking and being interested!
I don't adhere tightly to any certainties. It makes life to complicated for me. I just chase what feels right, inst hurtful to others, promotes new ideas in myself, and makes me feel creative and beautiful in my existence. Which honestly, is a challenge enough for me because i am often rather down about reality if you couldn't tell. And I am a very self critical person, so worry enough about living up to my own expectations of greatness and leave society to think what it wants about the way i spin the web of my life. This way I can exist with everyone else without hurting their experience and still learning and gaining from the social relationship.
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"I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells."
— Dr. Seuss

What we have is socialism for the rich and trickle down economics for the rest of us. I am part of the 99% of Americans left outside of Economic Elite circles...
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