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Old 08-23-2004   #121
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

Someone had set up a Bush/Cheney booth outside our student center today. A few students didn't like the idea much a stuck around to engage is some friendly debate. The people running the propoganda booth looked kind of frustrated that people were hindering their sticker distribution. One of the students was wearing this shirt, made me laugh:

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Old 08-24-2004   #122
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

Oh boy, this will take a while lol...

Quote:
Originally Said by ImpossibleDreamer
Why I will vote for Kerry:

The Bush Administration lied about Iraq having a connection to Al Qaeda. The Bush Administration purposely misled the public, implying that Iraq was connected to the September 11th attacks. The Bush Administration manipulated intelligence data and misled the public about the likelihood that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
-Bush did not lie about connections in IRaq to Al Qaeda, there were terrorist trainingcamps in Iraq.
-Bush did not imply that Iraq was involved in Semtember 11, be careful about what you infer because it's not neccesarily true all the time.
-Bush did not mislead the public about WMDs, British, Russian, and our own intelligence pointed towards WMDs in Iraq. Plus, we know Sadaam had them, we found 50 tons of Mustard Gas, is that a WMD? And he used other gases in his attempted genocide of the Kurds. So we know he has/had at least some.

Quote:
The Bush Administration failed to put together a coalition to share the cost in lives and money needed to occupy Iraq.
Actually, when you hear on the news about fighting, you hear "Coalition troops engaed Iraqui insurgents", so there is a coalition that is sustaining damages like we are.

Quote:
The Bush Administration claimed they were planting democracy in Iraq, though the very concept of democracy cannot be planted at the point of a gun.
Remember the Revolutionary War? We got democracy through fighting, like Iraq has. And furthermore, democracy is a type of government, not a lifestyle. They have elected their officials, so they do have a democracy.

Quote:
Then, the Bush Administration filled the Coalition Provisional Authority and current interim government with their own puppets. The Bush Administration took over the oil wells. Their viceroy, Paul Bremer, created laws which allow U.S. firms to control Iraq’s industries and remove the profits from the country. Word came down from the top to get information out of detainees by any means that work. Torture ensued. Most of the 8,000 Iraqi detainees were innocent.
-We need to have some control over the government there at this time, they're new at democracy and we are helping them.
-Taking over oil wells helps you and I. It helps lower gas prices.
-You're complaining that we're spending too much money, then when we try to make some with Bremer, you still complain.
-There is no proof that top officials ordered torture. There is only proof that perverted soldiers like to watch Iraqui men have sex.

Quote:
Cluster bombs were dropped in Iraq in civilian areas, and the bomblets are notorious for leaving unexploded components which injure innocent civilians.
War is a sad thing, some times innocent people die.

Quote:
The U.S. went to battle in Iraq without enough soldiers on the ground, without enough body armour, without enough armoured vehicles to protect the soldiers.
We had plenty of soldiers, all armed with the most technologically advanced protection equipment o protect them. You rarely hear that our soldiers are shot; it's always something like an RPG or a regular grenade that kills them because they're kevlar armor is so effective.

Quote:
Stop loss rules prevented soldiers from leaving, even when their military service time was up. Military veterans complain that they must wait more than six months to see a doctor or are refused a place on a waiting list because the Bush Administration has not adequately funded veteran medical care. Veterans hospitals have been closed so many veterans must drive many miles for care.
The VA has been crappy for years. In April 1999, my grandfather was placed in a VA alzheimer's unit. One week later, he was dead. They had overmedicated him and he died from it. That was under Clinton, so it's not Bush's fault that the VA is not very good.


Quote:
Though under-reported, violence has spread to many cities in Iraq, not just Najaf. Exasperation at inadequate electricity, clean water, and proper sewage removal almost 1 ½ years after the illegal invasion has cause ordinary Iraqis to join insurgents in fighting what is seen as a cruel, but inept occupying force.
This invasion was not illegal. There are no rules for invasions. The UN said we shouldnt, but just because we did does not mean it is illegal. And Iraquis are, for the most part, happy with us. Men dont have to fear that their wives and daughters will be raped or that they will be thrown into a firing squad. Women aren't fed foot first into a wood chipping machine. Conditions have improved in Iraq.

Quote:
It is feared that the entire Middle East region could be destabilized as a result of the Bush Administration’s reckless and illegal invasion of Iraq and subsequent failures to secure the peace. U.S. credibility is lost. U.S. alliances have been weakened or destroyed. U.S. enemies have been inflamed. The U.S. invasion of Iraq and one-sided support of Israel have served as a recruiting tool for terrorist groups. And three years after the September 11th attacks, Bin Laden remains free.
But also in that time, Sadaam Hussien, who has the blood of millions on his hands, is ours. We've still got plenty of allies. Who cares if France doesn't like us? What military force do the posess? What help are they as an ally? We have allies in Russia and Britain, and subsequently, Australia. These are the big ones, we need these guys and they have stood by our side.

Quote:
Over $150 billion in tax payer dollars has been siphoned from needs here at home and sent to Iraq to fund a failing illegal invasion. The deficit grows. The Bush Administration has failed to adequately fund efforts to secure the homeland from future terror attacks. Only five percent of containers coming into ports in this country are inspected. There is only enough medicine to treat 530 persons in the next anthrax attack. And three years after the last anthrax attack, no one has been brought to justice.
You think Kerry could have done a better job on this? Or what about Gore? Gore wouldn't even have gone into Afghanistan. Bush has lead us through that and now taken out probably the worst dictator ever. I'd say that's a good thing.

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Environmental laws have been weakened. Jobs have been sent overseas. Newly created jobs are lower paying. Civil liberties have been weakened. And the country has been encouraged to focus on gay marriage, as though gays just parachuted into the country in the last 20 minutes and are a threat to national security.
-I dont care about the environment if I can have more money seems to be the consensus of richer people in the US, Bush is playing towards that because he wants their votes.
-The PATRIOT act was need to ensure national security.
-Im not getting into a gay marriage debate here, but I disagree about that.

Quote:
Though John Kerry will inherit a mess left by the most dangerous and secretive administration in U.S. history, he can at least begin to address the carnage and stop the bleeding.

I’m voting for John Kerry.
John Kerry will do nothing. He's said nothing about what he's going to do. He plays every issue on both sides. And his big platform is "Hate Bush? Vote for the other guy!"

Check this: Kerry is anti-war, right? Well, he thinks we should stay in Iraq and finish what we started. Weird, huh? And then when Bush removes troops from Europe and Asia, Kerry criticizes it, even though it is an act of pacifism. Don't vote for Kerry, please. Vote third party or something if you don't like Bush, but Kerry is just awful.
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Old 08-24-2004   #123
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

Again, there is too much to respond to. I'll take a few points for now.

It is a lie that there were "training camps" in Iraq. There was one terrorist group, Ansaw Al-Islam, located in the northern part of Iraq, not controlled by Saddam. It was controlled by the Kurds, in the no-fly zone. The Bush Administration knew about this one camp, planned to bomb it in the summer of 2002, and decided against it so they could say that "Saddam was harboring terrorists." This camp could have been destroyed with one bombinb raid. The Bush Administration chose not to do so in order to use it for propaganda purposes.

The Bush Administration did indeed deceive the public about a link between Saddam and September 11th. While never actually saying that there was a link, Administration members cleverly used the words "September 11th" and "Saddam" in the same sentence. They repeatedly did this. Surveys prior to the invasion of Iraq show that a large segment of U.S. citizens believed that Saddam had been involved in September 11th.

It is well known that the Bush Administration did indeed manipulate intelligence regarding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Caveats were deleted from intelligence reports. And information was withheld from policy makers regarding the fact that the intelligence community had "human intelligence" on the ground after 1998. Many were led to believe that the data was fresh, not years old. In addition,
Iraqi exiles were employed by a little known intelligence group in the Pentagon called the Office of Special Plans to give information regarding Iraq's weapons systems. This group, headed by Ahmed Chalabi, told Pentagon officials what they wanted to hear. One exile, a drunk named "Curveball" provided bogus information regarding Iraq's "aluminum tubes" that purportedly could be used as missiles, even nuclear missiles. This information has now been discredited. At the time, however, the experts that cautioned that the specifications of the tubes were not suitable for missile use were ignored. The same is true of the so-called "trailors" that could be used to produce biological weapons. The fact that these trailors had been sold to Iraq by the British to produce weather balloons was ignored. Information was not "vetted" in the usual way. The information gathered from these lying Iraqi exiles was supposed to be sent to the CIA for analysis. Instead, it was "stovepiped" from Rumsfeld into Cheney's office, and then on to the president. Now, Ahmed Chalabi is wanted via an arrest warrant for allegedly passing on secrets to the Iranians. He managed to pack his relatives and friends into power positions in Iraq under the Coalition Provisional Authority before the so-called "hand over." Now, it is discovered that $20 billion is missing from Iraq banks and another $8.8 billion that was sent for reconstruction cannot be accounted for. More later . . . .
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Old 08-24-2004   #124
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

Oops! Mis-spell. The terrorist group that existed in northern Iraq was Ansar Al-Islam.
Again, this group was located in the no-fly zone, under U.S. surveillance, and could have been destroyed in 2002. The Bush Administration decided against it. It's leader is now responsible for much of the insurgency actions against U.S. troops in Iraq.
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Old 08-24-2004   #125
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

I meant to say that there was "no" human intelligence on the ground in Iraq after 1998. Weapons Inspector David Kay has complained about this, saying that this was generally not known. Many elected officials who were in a position to provide oversight on the matters of Iraq's weapons were led to believe that intelligence regarding weapons systems was "fresh' and not years old.
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Old 08-24-2004   #126
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
Your link actaully helps me. It says the NCLB act asks for the lowest increase in education funding in 9 years, so it seems Bush is beginning to stop our big spending. And education has to take a backseat sometimes. What good is an intelligent generation if they're all dead? We need to protect our children in order to assure that they will have a future, they're already getting a great education.
and what good is an alive generation if theyre all stupid? haha. education is still important, no matter what is going on. you say, "oh hes spending. thats good. thats what hes supposed to do." but then when he is underbudgeting something he's promised us, its "oh, see, now he's stopping. thats good". you cant have that work both ways.

Quote:
That's not what i said, i said Bush did not blame the recession on Clinton, nor did I.
but that is basically what his adminsration is doing. they changed the recession start to the end of clintons. im not going to put blame on either one, but his economic advisory people rewrote history, and it wasnt even right.

Quote:
The average American income isnt near 46000, its much higher. Plus, the higher tax cuts go to the smaller groups, if you do the math.
wouldnt the smaller groups be the rich?
and anyways, so what if the average income is higher. the poor are still getting ripped off. theyre the ones who need the help.
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Old 08-24-2004   #127
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

The War On Terrorism – August, 2004 The Outing of the Spy "Khan" And Other Bush Administration Acts of Incompetence and Political Opportunism:



The Bush White House prematurely exposed the identity of a key Al Qaeda source whose contacts & communications with terrorist mater minds had yet to be fully exploited. “The outing of Khan, probably the most important asset the U.S. has ever had inside Al Qaeda, is a huge disaster” according to Middle East specialist Juan Cole. “In this situation, in my view, they should have kept their mouth shut . . .” said Republican Senator George Allen. The Associated Press reports that the outing of “Khan” “allowed several wanted suspects to escape.”



The outing of “Khan” occurred after Bush Administration officials revealed that their most recent terror warning, timed one week after the Democratic Convention, was based on “old information.”



David Blunkett, British Home Secretary, issued a barely coded rebuke of President Bush for the most recently issued terror alert. British Ministers have been dismayed, according to the Independent newspaper, UK, “at the nakedly political use made of recent intelligence breakthroughs in the U.S. & Pakistan.”



The New York Daily News reports that “British & Pakistani intelligence officials are “furious with the Bush Administration for unmasking their super spy – apparently to justify the orange alert – and for naming other captured terrorist subjects. Tim Ripley, Security Expert for Jane’s Defense said “The whole thing smacks of either incompetence or worse.”



Pakistan has also protested to the Bush Administration regarding the FBI sting operation involving a fake plot to kill Pakistan’s UN enjoy, calling the operation “bizarre and mind-boggling” and adding that it “endangered the life of Pakistan’s UN envoy.”
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Old 08-24-2004   #128
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

Quote:
Originally Said by kyle
no his mommy told him
Fuck. Off.
Quote:
oh and kid? if you hate mac so much.. i think you should check out OS X Panther.. from what i hear.. it's awesome..
I don't hate it that much. I just needed an avatar.
And you do know there's an edit button right? There near the bottom of your post. Not to be a Nazi - I just wasn't sure you were aware.
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Old 08-24-2004   #129
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

thats not nice language, and bleed black pwns all of your arguments
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Old 08-24-2004   #130
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

I didn't make any arguments, smart ass.
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Old 08-24-2004   #131
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

no my remark on the arguments were for the entire thread
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Old 08-24-2004   #132
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

Oh, alright. Sorry.
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Old 08-24-2004   #133
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

i'm writing in Henry Rollins. no shit.
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Old 08-26-2004   #134
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

Quote:
Originally Said by shahrul
i hate Bush!!!coz,he alwayz make a decision without hearing people's opinion..........f*#k him!!!!!....
you are right - Bush should ask all before making any decision, that would work really well.
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Old 08-26-2004   #135
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

Quote:
Originally Said by moocow44
i'm writing in Henry Rollins. no shit.
Now I really do agree with that - I would take Henry over Bush or Kerry. Isn't that the tragedy here? - musician/writers are better candidates than the assholes that are running. Whether you're Republican or Democrat - you have to admit that Bush and Kerry are both very weak candidates.
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Old 08-27-2004   #136
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

Bush's administration certainly implied connections between Iraq and Al-Qaeda:

December 9, 2001: Dick Cheney states that it's been "pretty well confirmed" that Mohammed Atta went to Prague met "with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in Czechoslovakia...several months before the attack.'' Cheney later denied making this statement, which was pretty dumb since there's videotape of him saying exactly that statement.


November 7, 2002: Bush said that Husssein "is a threat because he's dealing with Al Qaeda."

March 18, 2003: Bush's letter to Congress announced that the force used against Iraq would be aimed against "terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001."

May 1, 2003: In his "Mission Accomplished" speech, Bush said that the invasion of Iraq had "removed an ally of Al Qaeda."

If Iraq wasn't about September 11th, why did the Bush administration make such declarations? It's hard to get around such implications with the above examples.
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Old 08-28-2004   #137
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

its so stupid. i think over the whole iraq war, and i just get so confused cause how the hell did we get roped into going to war with a country that wasnt our biggest threat. i dont really believe that we should have gone to war anyways, but if we had to...iraq? where does that come in? what happened to bin laden. does bush think we're (all) that stupid...bin laden is the one who planned 9-11...and we go after sadaam...? i seriously cant put into words how stupid people were to think that iraq was the right place to go for revenge. a good old hunt of bin laden would have done me just fine.

and as for weapons of mass destruction (officialy the most overused, annoying word for the rest of the decade) bush should have gotten more facts about that before making the jump. because, obviously it wasnt enough.

god damnit, over 900 soldiers dead for what? not to mention the debt were in, that were gonna have to be paying off, just so the gas prices can down.

not that i dont understand that sadaam was a bad person, but there are lots of bad guys out there. there are lots of people suffering. how bout instead of killing innocent civillians, we use that money weve blown on iraq to help africa fight aids and starvation.

and as for all the crap that bush stands up for us, he's our president and should have thought things through better. just because he'll send us to war, doesnt make him brave, courageous, or careful.

grrr, im so pissed, i cant barely explain. and i dont even get to vote!
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Old 08-28-2004   #138
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

I sympathize a lot with what you've said, but (and I know this seems to contradict my other post) I also have a hard time arguing that the world is worse off with Saddam out of power. I'm really unhappy about how we got in there in the first place--the misleading implications if 9/11 connections, the WMD business. As the solidity of the US' claims unravel, the world takes away its support, Iraqi citizens and militants become more hostile....and so what we started becomes even harder to do. If we had been more honest about it to begin with--"Look, 9/11 taught us that we need to be proactive about terrorist groups and nations. Now, we can't kick everyone's ass, but we've already taken Iraq to the fucking cleaners once, so..."--we would probly be better off now.

But, really, and this makes me sad, I think Bush blew a huge opportunity to make a positive change, one that did not involve divisive and violent rhetoric. He had the world's attention and the world's support. While much of the world hates US foreign policy, they like Americans, and they wept and felt for Americans because of 9/11. Bush's message could've been one of unity, instead of "if you're not with us, you're against us." It could've been more about peace instead of "axis of evil." He could've focused on the fact that terrorists don't fly planes into buildings because of cultural differences or cultural hatred, and that wealthy, democratic, militarily-powerful nations can make changes in terrorist-breeding places without necessarily bombing the shit out of them.
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Old 08-28-2004   #139
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

well i never did say the world is worse without saddam. i know its better, but just there are more important things to do.
i agree with him blowing the opportunity. i was gonna say something about it but i couldnt get it into words. haha. i remember reading a newspaper article from some guy in the uk, where he was saying the best thing we were doing was not retaliating. we had a chance to seem like humans, but bush turned it into a bloody revenge. i also think he took advantage of our vulnerability and unity by telling us iraq was the bad guys, they were linked to bin laden. and of course, as a renewed country, we couldnt say no, or else we'd be unpatriotic. (unpatrioticism[?] may have its own rant later on )
plus, thanks to the war, he's pretty much adding to the terrorists. so many iraqis resent us, and al queda would be stupid not to take advantage of u.s. haters.
oh does he piss me off..
oook. just breathe...inhale, exhale...
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Old 10-29-2004   #140
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Re: why are you voting for kerry?

im voting for kerry becuz he says he will make a change and i just wanna see what he will do better.
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