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Old 09-11-2005   #1
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Lyrics or 'music'

With the increase of 'pop' songs that are more focused on rythym and beat, is the importance of good lyrics dimishing?

Obviously a great song combines good lyrics and music to convey meaning and such, but do you think rythym and beat is more important?

I guess it comes down to whether you want to dance to it, or listen to it and get something from it.

So what do you think?
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Old 09-11-2005   #2
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

I can get something from the music as easily as I can from the lyrics. As I see it, the lyrics are simply the notes of another instrument. It can be done well, or badly, but it's simply one part of something bigger, and in the end, I judge a song on the whole thing.
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Old 09-11-2005   #3
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

mmm like the music conveys meaning just through notes instead of words.
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Old 09-11-2005   #4
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

by german songsthe lyrics are more important to me then the actuall music, but it is different with english songs. it is becase if i hear someone in geran speaking/ singing i understand it whether I want to or not (i heard it has something to do with your unconscious mind) but if soeone speaks in a foreign language i can switch it off.
or example when you are on vacation in another country and lay at the beach and there is an couple next to you who speak your language you understand every single word of what they say. (for me that is realy anoying) but if there is a couple next to you who speak another language you can concentrate on other things and don´t notice them at all.... and that is the same with music.
well but by english songs it is kinda still important for me because don´t want to listen to mentaly shit with a good rythym.
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Old 09-11-2005   #5
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

Really bad lyrics can make even the most musically beautiful song seem worse than it is. Then again, really bad music can make even the best lyrics sound bad.

For example... I generally like Gwen Stefani and her music, but the lyrics to that banana song ["Hollaback Girl (???)", I think] make no sense. The beat is good, but I honestly have no clue what the hell she's trying to say.
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Old 09-11-2005   #6
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

lyrics are the most important element for me: they mark just how genuine the band is. if they've got alright music, and brilliant lyrics, you know they're there to sing what they mean. if they're fantastic musicians, but their lyrics are the equivelant of a 12 year old's journal, then you know they just care about being heard - otherwise they'd have stuck with the music alone.

and then, of course, you've got your musicians who don't write their own music orlyrics and, as such, it's easy to judge just how low they're ready to sink.

afi have some stunning lyrics, and i will even listen to some smashing pumpkins just because of the words. the phonics' early stuff is poetry put to music and dylan and most of the beatles are just incomparable.

...

one of my favourite little things with regard to lyrics:

i will listen to the song 'welcome to my life' by simple plan time and time again, not because it's any good, but because of the accidental genius inherent in it.

there he is singing 'no you don't know what it's like... to feel hurt, to feel lost, to feel left out in the dark, to be kicked when you're down, and feel like you've been pushed around...' etc etc, blah blah blah... 'no you don't know what's like; welcome to my life.'

and this is where the irony kicks in because all over the world, thousands of teenagers are sitting there thinking to themselves 'yeah, nobody know's what it's like; i know exactly how he feels. nobody else feels like me.'

and all over the world every single one of them is feeling exactly the same.

if any of the bands that i'd mentioned earlier, or several others, had written it, i'd have thought it was pure genius playing on the utter irony of teenage tendencies towards self-depression and egotism.

being that it was simple plan, i'd bet on stupidity and sheer luck.
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Old 09-11-2005   #7
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

i go either way on this subject, i will listen to music tht has music that blows you away, but the lyrics are the equivalent of a drunken redneck talking about turkeys. on the other hand i will listen to songs with amazing lyrics and crappy instrumentals. a mix of the two is what i normally go for.
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Old 09-11-2005   #8
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

Quote:
Originally Said by sazzle
With the increase of 'pop' songs that are more focused on rythym and beat, is the importance of good lyrics dimishing?
quite the opposite. good lyrics are a recent invention, never heard until around 7 years ago, but still not very common. almost all lyrics through the past 100 years have been about the same 4 things: love, hate, joy, and sorrow. i think of it as music for the emotionally challenged. there are also topical lyrics, but until recently, they were never well written.
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Old 09-11-2005   #9
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

Quote:
Originally Said by neomp5
good lyrics are a recent invention, never heard until around 7 years ago, but still not very common.
dude, the beatles?! bob marley? jimmi hendrix? dylan? black sabbath?! Johnny Cash? Elvis fucking Presley?!

come on, man. edit that out and be ashamed of yourself for even writing it.
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Old 09-11-2005   #10
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

Quote:
Originally Said by Yugoloth
dude, the beatles?! bob marley? jimmi hendrix? dylan? black sabbath?! Johnny Cash? Elvis fucking Presley?!

come on, man. edit that out and be ashamed of yourself for even writing it.
Seconded.
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Old 09-11-2005   #11
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

Quote:
Originally Said by neomp5
all of them had bland, uninteresting lyrics


actually, those are flawless examples of bland, uninteresting lyrics
Since when does a song need to have complex lyrics in order to be interesting? A song can make just as big of an impact, maybe even more so, by having simple, straight-to-the-point lyrics. Throwing big words into a song won't necessarily make it better, or more interesting. If it doesn't fit with the style of the song, it just sounds pretentious, and like the author had a little too much fun with a thesaurus.

The reason why artists like The Beatles, Elvis, Bobs Dylan and Marley, and all those have endured for so long, and people keep listening to it, is because the lyrics are very simple and easy to identify with. If a song has the listener running to a dictionary to decipher the lyrics, it's not going to make the immediate impact lyrics are supposed to. Think of a song that really made an impact on you the first time you heard it. Was it because it used 4- and 5-syllable words? Probably not.
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Old 09-11-2005   #12
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

I don't know on what basis you're saying this.

To go back into history- what about opera and classical music? Opera has the most meaningful (yet often simple) lyrics of all time and I would hardly call it recent.

'Meaningful lyrics' is far from a recent creation, it's a universal thing.

Sure, music on a whole diminished during the industrial era (and i'm speaking in generalised terms) but it doesn't mean that music before that ceased to exist.
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Old 09-12-2005   #13
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

Quote:
Originally Said by neomp5
quite the opposite. good lyrics are a recent invention, never heard until around 7 years ago, but still not very common. almost all lyrics through the past 100 years have been about the same 4 things: love, hate, joy, and sorrow. i think of it as music for the emotionally challenged. there are also topical lyrics, but until recently, they were never well written.
Hahahahahahahahaha!! Wow. That is, hands down, the stupidest thing i've ever read. Congratulations dude

Until recently? Who do you class as great lyricists? And if you wouldn't mind, could you post what you see as well written lyrics please?

Because i see in your profile that you like 'Linkin Park', and don't get me wrong, i'm not making fun of you for that. It's my view that if the music makes you happy, and you see something in it, then great for you. But lyrics like...

"I dont want to be the one
The battles always choose
'Cause inside I realize
That I'm the one confused"

... just don't strike me as well written at all. In fact, IN MY OPINION, they are terribly written.

Now, you may even retort, that "i don't think those are examples of well written lyrics, but that doesn't mean i shouldn't like the band, because i obviously think that good lyrics are rare", or something of that nature, and that'll make you think you're all smarter, and have a quicker wit than everyone here. Or you may not think that at all. Who knows.

The fact remains, that you are writing your (in my opinion, godawful) opinion off, as "the truth", when as i said, whether you think it's the truth or not, it is in fact your opinion. Get over yourself dude. Seriously. What you think about certain subjects, isn't always how it is.

Last edited by Wobbie; 09-12-2005 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 09-12-2005   #14
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

Quote:
Originally Said by neomp5
you ask anybody who grew up in that generation, and you'll find they weren't listening to the lyrics at all.
you serious???

ahahahahahah...




























hahahahahah.....you fucking tool!!

out of nearly everything you've said on AS, this ranks as one of the dumbest things to say...

you ask anybody who grew up in that generation, and yes they will say at times they weren't listening because they were too stoned or drunk or whatever at times.....key thing is, 'at times'.....but believe me when I say, bands like rolling stones, Status Quo, Queen, The Beatles and so forth, all survived their times because people DID listen, if they didn't then these bands would not have kept going for as long as they did, and more so in the case of the stones and of quo where they are still going now and STILL making albums, the stones have just released an album just this past week.....people arent listening? I think its you who isnt listening, go back to you teenage suicidal linken park, and leave real music alone....

anyways sazzle, I do agree, that too many 'pop' songs and such nowadays focus too much on a beat, because nowadays the younger market seems to be hooked on a beat more than they do a lyric now, its the beat that hooks them and the lyrics that hold them....and more than anything its the image of the singer or group that captivates them now.....sex sells the industry too much...

you could show someone a picture of 2 different bands/singers....one being 50 Cent and the other being I duno....coheed and cambria......now forget one is rap and the other is rock....but show that person those pics, and they will pic the 50 cent one....why? because he is good looking compared to coheed and cambria's frontman with his mad fucking hair and trucker looks......granted if you showed it to a rocker or a rap fan they will pick the respective one, but find someone who doesnt align with one genre and I garuntee they will pic the good looking one over the 'ugly' one.....

I think your debate sarah should really be more, whats more important, the music and lyrics, or the image of the band or singer...

prove my point, which looks the 'better' artist?

50 Cent

Coheed & Cambria

'nuff said really...

image is seemingly everything on a mass scale with music nowadays...
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Old 09-12-2005   #15
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

To me, lyrics are the most important part of a song. True, the beat will grab me in, but if I don't like the lyrics, I don't like the song.

And I'm the opposite of neomp5, I have real trouble finding the good songs and lyrics from later than 6 or 7 years ago. Even then, late 90s stuff was already becoming too focused on the persona of the person singing it rather than lyrics and good music.

Neomp, I think you're alone in your thought that the recent stuff is the best. Bands like the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Queen, the Doors, and the Beatles are still pretty popular because of their lyrics.

In a lot of songs now, people will recognize the beat of a song before they recognize the words.
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Old 09-12-2005   #16
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

Quote:
Originally Said by Psychosis
I think your debate sarah should really be more, whats more important, the music and lyrics, or the image of the band or singer...
Good point, and i think that's what I'm aiming for.

I'm not saying that lyrics are subordinate to the music, because they are the music. But the image of the band/singer is conveyed primarliy through the lyrics, opposed to the 'music'.
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Old 09-12-2005   #17
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

Okay Neomp5, just a few examples:

Blowin' in the Wind- Bob Dylan
Fortunate Son- CCR
Sweet Home Alabama- Lynyrd Skynyrd
Anything by the Styx, Led Zeppelin, Queen, The Clash, the Ramones, The Who, Alice Cooper, U2's older stuff....would you like me to continue? I could go on and on and on.
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Old 09-12-2005   #18
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

bob dylan is the most overrated singer ever
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Old 09-12-2005   #19
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

neo, what you gotta realize is that "good" lyrics and "bad" lyrics are mostly subjective. So far, I've restrained from saying any of the lyrics that you've posted are stunted drivel, because that's only what I think. There are probably plenty of people out there who like it, so instead I'll just say that I don't like them, and be done.

But saying that all music from the beginning of written history until 7 years ago had weak lyrics is absolutely not true. Just because you don't have a value connection with the lyrics in "Blowing with the Wind" doesn't mean the lyrics are bad - it means that they didn't connect with you, or that you don't sympathize with them, or see them as particularly meaningful, or whatever. But thousands of people did enjoy that song, for whatever reason (probably the lyrics, since it's Dylan), and did sympathize with the lyrics. Just because you didn't has no bearing on the quality of the song.

And... damn, son, but you dissed "Sweet Home Alabama." This is a perfect example of what I'm trying to say. It shows the "other side" of the civil rights movement by calling down Neil Young for his criticism of Governor Wallace (who was pro-segregation), and sings to the masses of Southerners who just wanted things to stay the same.

But you don't like the lyrics. Why? Because you've never been to Muscle Shoals. You don't grin whenever you hear the line about "big wheels keep on turnin'," I suppose because the ridiculously-jacked-up trucks on huge rims that everyone loves down South aren't common in Canada. I hear this song and I remember sailing on the Tennessee under the brilliant blue sky in humid summers, and drinking homemade egg-nog at my grandpap's house in Tuscumbia, just by the shoals.

So of course it makes sense for me to like the lyrics, and for you not to like them. But it certainly doesn't make them "boring" or "generic."

Last edited by Yugoloth; 09-12-2005 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 09-12-2005   #20
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Re: Lyrics or 'music'

Quote:
Originally Said by neomp5
no, i'd say he's about equal with rod stewart, bryan adams, the guy from queen, remy shand, and all those other people with god-awful voices who keep getting famous for singing
God-awful voices??? Hardly. Just because they have a different sound than the stuff you're used to listening doesn't mean they're god-awful. Besides, it their voices were truly that bad, people wouldn't listen. All the artists you've listed have sold hundreds and hundreds of records (well... maybe not Remy Shand), so their voices hardly count as god-awful, since there are hundreds and hundreds of people willing to listen.

Also, I'm sorry, but I don't classify rap as "singing". Why? Because they don't.
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