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View Poll Results: Re-elect Bush?
Yes, he has done a great job.., nobody liked Saddam anyways.. 16 44.44%
NO please!!, A president should at least look smart.. 20 55.56%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-20-2004   #81
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

I know this isn't exactly connected to Bush being re-elected, but, well, that's a pretty dull topic on its own.

I think this is sort of relevant to the "Bush election" question because a lot of people both from this country and from other countries see "dumb," "illiterate," "oil," Texan," and "Republican" when they look at him, and think "That guy's representing the United States. Fuck." But the country isn't the leader who represents it. Unfortunately, it seems that way and the president does have a lot of power, but the United States is more than its leader. Cracks about President Bush often come down to cracks about the United States, and we're not all dumb Texans with ties to oil and not all of us want to spend so much on military and so little on foreign aid.

So, I pulled this out from a post 6 days ago because I wanted to respond to it then. And it ties in with what I'm saying above.

Neomp5 said:
AS I SAID EARLIER, TELL ME SOMETHING OTHER THAN MONEY AND KILLING MACHINES THAT MAKES THE U.S. STAND OUT

The US stands out in its contributions to science, particularly in chemistry, physics, and medicine-physiology (the Nobel Prize categories in which the US have dominated since 1951). United States scientists received 171 of the 309 Nobel Prizes in Science awarded between 1951-2000.

What about our contributions to literature? Robert Frost, William Faulkner, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Toni Morrison, Mark Twain, Joyce Carol Oates, Walt Whitman, Emily Dickinson, e.e. cummings, Sylvia Plath, Arthur Miller, Kurt Vonnegut Jr.,...hell, Dr. Seuss.
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Old 02-20-2004   #82
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

Quote:
Originally Said by cstoll
I know this isn't exactly connected to Bush being re-elected, but, well, that's a pretty dull topic on its own.

I think this is sort of relevant to the "Bush election" question because a lot of people both from this country and from other countries see "dumb," "illiterate," "oil," Texan," and "Republican" when they look at him, and think "That guy's representing the United States. Fuck." But the country isn't the leader who represents it. Unfortunately, it seems that way and the president does have a lot of power, but the United States is more than its leader. Cracks about President Bush often come down to cracks about the United States, and we're not all dumb Texans with ties to oil and not all of us want to spend so much on military and so little on foreign aid.

So, I pulled this out from a post 6 days ago because I wanted to respond to it then. And it ties in with what I'm saying above.

Neomp5 said:
AS I SAID EARLIER, TELL ME SOMETHING OTHER THAN MONEY AND KILLING MACHINES THAT MAKES THE U.S. STAND OUT

The US stands out in its contributions to science, particularly in chemistry, physics, and medicine-physiology (the Nobel Prize categories in which the US have dominated since 1951). United States scientists received 171 of the 309 Nobel Prizes in Science awarded between 1951-2000.

What about our contributions to literature? Robert Frost, William Faulkner, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Toni Morrison, Mark Twain, Joyce Carol Oates, Walt Whitman, Emily Dickinson, e.e. cummings, Sylvia Plath, Arthur Miller, Kurt Vonnegut Jr.,...hell, Dr. Seuss.
you took the words right out of my mouth.

it does have to do with the topic a little bit, cause i know sure as hell that i dont want this guy to be representing our country again in the way he does. im hoping that this time we'll get someone...not so harmful to our reputation! heh
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Old 02-20-2004   #83
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

Iraq "Debacle" Debunked
Geraldo Rivera on Fox


The buildings that AREN'T burning in Iraq. "They have a saying in the news business," Geraldo Rivera related this week. "Reporters don't report buildings that don't burn." And with that introduction, he told a TV audience about the story that is being systematically denied to our entire nation: the success story of post-Saddam Iraq.

Are we losing some soldiers each week? Yes. Is there some frustration in the public about electricity and waterservice? Yes. Are some Saddam Hussein loyalists throughout the land, making trouble? Yes. Has this opened a window for some terrorist mischief? Yes. But that's ALL we hear. No wonder the country is in a mixed mood about Iraq. If you hear about the buildings that are not burning, though, it is a different story indeed.

"When I got to Baghdad, I barely recognized it," he began, comparing his just-completed trip to two others he made during and just after the battle to topple Saddam. "You have over 30,000 Iraqi cops and militiamen already on the job.

This is four months after major fighting stopped. Can you imagine that kind of gearing up in this country? Law and order is better; archaeological sites are being preserved; factories, schools are being guarded." But what about the secondhand griping that the media have been so efficiently relating about power, water and other infrastructure?

"To say that Iraq is being rebuilt is not true," answered Rivera. "Iraq is being built. There was no infrastructure before; we are doing it. I just think the good news is being underestimated and underreported." At this juncture, one must evaluate how to feel about the voices telling us only about the bad news in Iraq, whether from the mouths of news anchors or Democratic presidential hopefuls. At best, they are underinformed. At worst, their one-sided assessments of post-Saddam Iraq are intentional falsehoods for obvious reasons.

Local elections are under way across Iraq, Rivera reported. "Where Kurds and Arabs have been battling for decades, things have been settling down. Administrator Paul Bremer is doing a great job."

So does Geraldo think his media colleagues are intentionally painting with one side of the brush? "I'm not into conspiracy theories,..but there's just more bang for your buck when you report the GI who got killed rather than the 99 who didn't get killed, who make friends, who helped schedule elections, who helped shops get open for business, who helped traffic flow again. "The vast majority of Iraqis are very happy to have us there. I would like to see a bit more balance." This needs to be reported to the American Public who are presently being duped. I expect the dominant media culture to nitpick and attack Bush, and Democrats to blast him with reckless abandon. But when that leads to the willful exclusion of facts that would shine truthful light on the great work of the American armed forces, that level of malice plumbs new depths.
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Old 02-20-2004   #84
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

-blinks-

-speechless and outraged-
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Old 02-24-2004   #85
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

re-elect bush....ARE YOU CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not think that George Bush cares about anything really. He is just our brainless President who is worried about public image-so he made sure that he makes a good impression on us. I personally don't like our good friend G.W.

To quote Micheal Moore at the Academy Awards, "He won a fictitious election and started a war for fictitious reasons! Shame on You, Mr. Bush! Shame on You!"

It's kind of obvious that the previous war was political. His re-election will be coming up soon, and he may have wanted it to keep going to get re-elected. He may still be hoping that he’ll get re-elected because he needs to “reconstruct” Iraq. I have a hard time believing this. He’s screwing them over and telling them that they can’t do anything without us. I don’t mind helping them, but why don’t we go to the U.N. and ask for money from everybody to help out as well. After all, they were the ones who were concerned about them before the war. Also, I think we should let them start running themselves by now. There should be no American governors or anything. We supposedly “saved” them, so why not let them sign their constitution and help them rebuild maybe. Stop procrastinating this and help them get on with life. Don’t hold them back with the intentions of controlling them.

Speaking of controlling Iraq……Mr. G.W. is an oil man, so logically he wants the oil. Afterall, everyone knows we don’t have a whole heck of a lot of oil over here. And to any of you who says, "Well, why not get something like oil out of a war...", start looking at your concious. Or, do you even have any morals or a concious. It's still wrong, because we are probably ripping them off badly to get the oil really cheap. Supposedly we’re not getting any oil out of there right now. Don’t tell me you believe that. We Americans are no better than anyone else, and we are probably smuggling some of it out of there for our own greedy needs. Yeah, sure the gas will be cheap, but think about the people you're skrewing over to get it.

And don't give the, "Don't you support our troops slogan?", because I do the support the troops. I care very deeply and tenderly, in fact, so much, if I had it my way, they wouldn't be over there dying in the first place. Our friend, Georgey here, is no better than his daddy, and he's probably just trying to impress daddy with all the things he's doing.

Also, we’ve had over 300 deaths or so after the war was declared over by George. Don’t forget, of some 300 soldiers, about 30 of them committed suicide! Doesn’t that tell you something. Thanks for the propaganda, but don’t tell me everyone’s happy with our presence over there, otherwise, people wouldn’t be dying would they? A few attepts have already been made on the Iraqi Intererim council. The U.S. has broken ties with nations like Russia and China that we’ve been trying to build FOR YEARS!!!!!!!!!!

Also, this war is costing over 100 billion dollars if Congress gives him more money for Iraq’s reconstruction. We are going to be buried in debt for a long time. Thanks a lot G.W.

Also-I don't care for the Bush's little "God bless America" thing because I don't think he knows what he's talking about. How do you know God smiles upon this country. Did he recently have a conversation with our Lord Almighty. In fact, I'm wondering if maybe God hasn't been watching over us because of dissappointment. Maybe that's why we have things like 9/11. This is ridiculous!!!!-plus, whatever happened to the separation b/w church and state….does that not exist-bush does tend to have an attitude that everyone in the world should be blown away if their not christian.

Don’t forget, Mr. Bush says that,” Leave no child behind.” b.s…….then why did he cut 60 billion dollars out of education? How did our nations’s biggest surplus in history, become our biggest debt ever (over 1 trillion dollars!)?

Also-for the record, notice how everyone's out of work and the economy sucks right now. Well, I've got news for you, it was doing okay before he got in there. And don't tell me that, "He couldn't help it that 9/11 happened." You know what, it was his daddy that ticked those people off for stationing troops in Saudi Arabia ten years ago. These people who caused 9/11 were completely psychotic, I agree, but they had to have had a reason to smash planes into buildings to do this. You don't do that for no reason. See, his father’s actions in the Gulf War are still haunting us today. I'm not saying it's directly Bush's fault (I agree he can't control is father's past actions, but I thought some of this should be put in the open)

Also, I was told that you couldn't be the President for a felony. Isn't drunk driving a felony? I don't care how long ago it was or whether anyone was hurt or not, our good friend George skrewed up again back in the 70's. also, don’t even get me started on his 12 month AWOL spree in the national guard.

And, didn't you hear about the black man's son who couldn't even get his son into Harvard even though his test scores were almost twice as high as G.W. I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. I thought higher learning was for people who were truly intelligent? But, I guess I was wrong, it clearly depends on how much money you have.

Well, I wrote all this craziness and all I really wanted to say was that I think when George says,"God bless America", think about everyone who got skrewed over or stepped on and all of the wrongs he's performed. Do you think he's really holier than though? Do you think he really means it? He may be a Christian, but he’s a hothead and he’s going to get us killed.

Now, unlike some people, I can admit to being wrong. I can't always be right. I could be completely wrong in everything I've said here, and I admit it, because there's nothing wrong with being wrong. In a way, we're all wrong....it’s ignorant to say we know everything-but I am finding it hard to see anything RIGHT about mr. bush.

America is in trouble, we have become nothing but a plutocracy.


ps-oh, and I just wanted to add, I thought that even the Bush Adminisration could come up with something better than choking on a pretzel. Why don't they just tell the truth. George Bush still drinks. WHOPPEE DO DA! WHO CARES?! I certainly don't. It's pretty sad when you have to lie to about 250 million people.

pps-yes I know-some of you are dying to send hatemail-so, here's my email

mccamdav@students.huhs.org


i know, i typed a lot, but i have so much info i could throw in, but i'm tired right now, and trust me, anyone can try to debate this, but i would be surprised if you could actually win....
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Old 02-24-2004   #86
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

I won't send you any hate mail, and I can't debate you because you didn't give one fact. I can't debate you in your opinions. You say Yeah, sure the gas will be cheap, but think about the people you're skrewing over to get it. I say, I don't know where you live, but gas prices have gone up where I live about 10 cents in the last 2 weeks.

You say Also-for the record, notice how everyone's out of work and the economy sucks right now. I say the unemployment rate is around 5.7% which is lower than the average unemployment rates during the 1970s (6.4 percent), 1980s (7.3 percent) or 1990s (5.8 percent).

I don't think George Bush invented the God Bless America slogan. Presidents have been saying that for years.

I have no earthly idea where you heard he cut $60 billon out of education. Was that Michael Moore too? please read:

A senior administration official said "nearly all" of the $550 million education plan is new spending, and he said Mr. Bush's budget for fiscal year 2005 will include net increases for the departments of Education and Labor.
Conservatives on Capitol Hill and around the country have complained about the increases in domestic spending during Mr. Bush's administration that exceed those of his Democratic predecessor, Bill Clinton.

If you want to debate something, have some facts that are real, not "did you hear about the black man's son who didn't get into Harvard"



Quote:
Originally Said by Macster
re-elect bush....ARE YOU CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not think that George Bush cares about anything really. He is just our brainless President who is worried about public image-so he made sure that he makes a good impression on us. I personally don't like our good friend G.W.

To quote Micheal Moore at the Academy Awards, "He won a fictitious election and started a war for fictitious reasons! Shame on You, Mr. Bush! Shame on You!"

It's kind of obvious that the previous war was political. His re-election will be coming up soon, and he may have wanted it to keep going to get re-elected. He may still be hoping that he’ll get re-elected because he needs to “reconstruct” Iraq. I have a hard time believing this. He’s screwing them over and telling them that they can’t do anything without us. I don’t mind helping them, but why don’t we go to the U.N. and ask for money from everybody to help out as well. After all, they were the ones who were concerned about them before the war. Also, I think we should let them start running themselves by now. There should be no American governors or anything. We supposedly “saved” them, so why not let them sign their constitution and help them rebuild maybe. Stop procrastinating this and help them get on with life. Don’t hold them back with the intentions of controlling them.

Speaking of controlling Iraq……Mr. G.W. is an oil man, so logically he wants the oil. Afterall, everyone knows we don’t have a whole heck of a lot of oil over here. And to any of you who says, "Well, why not get something like oil out of a war...", start looking at your concious. Or, do you even have any morals or a concious. It's still wrong, because we are probably ripping them off badly to get the oil really cheap. Supposedly we’re not getting any oil out of there right now. Don’t tell me you believe that. We Americans are no better than anyone else, and we are probably smuggling some of it out of there for our own greedy needs. Yeah, sure the gas will be cheap, but think about the people you're skrewing over to get it.

And don't give the, "Don't you support our troops slogan?", because I do the support the troops. I care very deeply and tenderly, in fact, so much, if I had it my way, they wouldn't be over there dying in the first place. Our friend, Georgey here, is no better than his daddy, and he's probably just trying to impress daddy with all the things he's doing.

Also, we’ve had over 300 deaths or so after the war was declared over by George. Don’t forget, of some 300 soldiers, about 30 of them committed suicide! Doesn’t that tell you something. Thanks for the propaganda, but don’t tell me everyone’s happy with our presence over there, otherwise, people wouldn’t be dying would they? A few attepts have already been made on the Iraqi Intererim council. The U.S. has broken ties with nations like Russia and China that we’ve been trying to build FOR YEARS!!!!!!!!!!

Also, this war is costing over 100 billion dollars if Congress gives him more money for Iraq’s reconstruction. We are going to be buried in debt for a long time. Thanks a lot G.W.

Also-I don't care for the Bush's little "God bless America" thing because I don't think he knows what he's talking about. How do you know God smiles upon this country. Did he recently have a conversation with our Lord Almighty. In fact, I'm wondering if maybe God hasn't been watching over us because of dissappointment. Maybe that's why we have things like 9/11. This is ridiculous!!!!-plus, whatever happened to the separation b/w church and state….does that not exist-bush does tend to have an attitude that everyone in the world should be blown away if their not christian.

Don’t forget, Mr. Bush says that,” Leave no child behind.” b.s…….then why did he cut 60 billion dollars out of education? How did our nations’s biggest surplus in history, become our biggest debt ever (over 1 trillion dollars!)?

Also-for the record, notice how everyone's out of work and the economy sucks right now. Well, I've got news for you, it was doing okay before he got in there. And don't tell me that, "He couldn't help it that 9/11 happened." You know what, it was his daddy that ticked those people off for stationing troops in Saudi Arabia ten years ago. These people who caused 9/11 were completely psychotic, I agree, but they had to have had a reason to smash planes into buildings to do this. You don't do that for no reason. See, his father’s actions in the Gulf War are still haunting us today. I'm not saying it's directly Bush's fault (I agree he can't control is father's past actions, but I thought some of this should be put in the open)

Also, I was told that you couldn't be the President for a felony. Isn't drunk driving a felony? I don't care how long ago it was or whether anyone was hurt or not, our good friend George skrewed up again back in the 70's. also, don’t even get me started on his 12 month AWOL spree in the national guard.

And, didn't you hear about the black man's son who couldn't even get his son into Harvard even though his test scores were almost twice as high as G.W. I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. I thought higher learning was for people who were truly intelligent? But, I guess I was wrong, it clearly depends on how much money you have.

Well, I wrote all this craziness and all I really wanted to say was that I think when George says,"God bless America", think about everyone who got skrewed over or stepped on and all of the wrongs he's performed. Do you think he's really holier than though? Do you think he really means it? He may be a Christian, but he’s a hothead and he’s going to get us killed.

Now, unlike some people, I can admit to being wrong. I can't always be right. I could be completely wrong in everything I've said here, and I admit it, because there's nothing wrong with being wrong. In a way, we're all wrong....it’s ignorant to say we know everything-but I am finding it hard to see anything RIGHT about mr. bush.

America is in trouble, we have become nothing but a plutocracy.


ps-oh, and I just wanted to add, I thought that even the Bush Adminisration could come up with something better than choking on a pretzel. Why don't they just tell the truth. George Bush still drinks. WHOPPEE DO DA! WHO CARES?! I certainly don't. It's pretty sad when you have to lie to about 250 million people.

pps-yes I know-some of you are dying to send hatemail-so, here's my email

mccamdav@students.huhs.org


i know, i typed a lot, but i have so much info i could throw in, but i'm tired right now, and trust me, anyone can try to debate this, but i would be surprised if you could actually win....
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Old 02-24-2004   #87
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

my two cents..

Quote:
A senior administration official said "nearly all" of the $550 million education plan is new spending, and he said Mr. Bush's budget for fiscal year 2005 will include net increases for the departments of Education and Labor.
The current administration does not believe their own numbers.., just last week the president backed out from his administration earlier (2 days earlier) statement that there were going to be 2.5 million more jobs by the end of the year. The president's great excuse, 'I am not a statistician'. Right now, they don't want to say any number. Yes, things are that screwed up.

They wanted to 're-classify' fast-food jobs (flipping burgers) as manufacturing jobs(making something).., of course just to artificially bust monthly numbers of employment...everybody is laughing at that one..the fast food sector is mainly staffed by kids between 15 and 25 years, which means that this is mostly for pocket money, not to live from it. In the other hand, manufacturing jobs are staffed by bread-winners, the ones that pay bills and buy houses.., so by busting those employment numbers, they can infer that this huge portion of the economy is going to cash in....

this is what happens when you are a really bad MBA student (GWB), and very bad publicity for the Harvard class of '74...
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Old 02-24-2004   #88
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

I am not voting for the bastard simply because he is trying to ban gay marriages. I will be old enough by November, and he is definately not getting my vote.
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Old 02-24-2004   #89
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

Quote:
Originally Said by 4degrees
I am not voting for the bastard simply because he is trying to ban gay marriages. I will be old enough by November, and he is definately not getting my vote.
ya, if the war and sucky economy isnt bad enough, him banning gay marriage is just way, totally wrong. not only is it plain stupid, it seems that he's trying to all of a sudden please a whole bunch of groups that he wants to vote for him. which kinda scares me, cause right now he's gonna be pleasing all the uptight christians. of course, he's gonna lose all the homosexuals who want to get married. but i guess, which group is bigger? thats why i think he wants to ban it. i dunno, maybe im wrong?
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Old 02-24-2004   #90
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

to rubberducky55...exactly...this is why he always says,"God bless America" We are in a religous revival right now (in my opinion, sorry have no statistics, just what i've observed all around)...plus, when you logically think about, banning gay marriages is not very bright, think about, some politician is going to legalize it someday-it's like taking off a cow's legs with a meat grinder and trying to keep it from bleeding to death with kleenex...the cow's going to die-i wish they'd stop fighting this pointless battle. this is a free country, so let's make it free people...besides what do i care if two gay people get married...it doesn't affect me whether i believe in it or not...it's there business not mine...

also to JT11....yeah, i owe an apology, i am a sensible person and i really don't have any statistics...sorry.....i can give you a better argument and i'm sorry if i sounded like an idiot. i only had like 20 minutes to post that today, and that came off something i wrote about 2 months ago, and so i had tried to edit it....but that obviously didn't work out too well, in fact i have to go right now, but i will have a better argument later.....
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Old 02-25-2004   #91
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

Quote:
Originally Said by 4degrees
I am not voting for the bastard simply because he is trying to ban gay marriages. I will be old enough by November, and he is definately not getting my vote.
That's a bad stance to take, but it is the right one, as far as I am concerned. I'm not not voting for Bush simply because of the gay marriages but also for these:

1- The war on Iraq, which was debunked as reasonable before it began
2- The drop in the economy (belive it or not, Clinton helped the economy incredibly)
3- The fact that Republican economic policy is designed to help the rich before the poor
4- The fact that Democratic economic policy does the opposite
5- The opposition to gay marriage
6- The opposition to legalised abortions
7- The fact that we could have had a war with North Korea - something we did not and do not need
8- The fact that he thinks the religious right are correct
9- The fact that if we keep Bush in power, there will be more and more religious influence in a nation whose principles are anything but
10- The fact that there is anything but a semblance of equality throughout this nation

Plus several other things that I can't think of at the moment.
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Old 02-25-2004   #92
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

In addition to Verilon's post, I'd just like to add that in one term Bush has:

1) Cut medicaid drastically, robbing millions of children of proper medical care
2) Destroyed the medicare increase Clinton had in line, slashing it to a shade of what it was supposed to be, fooling the American public into believing he helped medicare patients.
3) Decreased federal financial aid
4) Decreased taxes for the rich minority
5) Alienated women by passing the partial birth abortion ban

Ugh. Who wants to see what he's capable of in the next four years? Not me...
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Old 02-25-2004   #93
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

Quote:
Originally Said by Macster
it's like taking off a cow's legs with a meat grinder and trying to keep it from bleeding to death with kleenex...the cow's going to die


hmm...never thought of it like that. haha

but ya, its really saying something that he's using religion in order to ban something that he doesnt like. and ya, people shouldnt care about homosexual marriages because they dont have to have anything to do with it if they dont want and its not right for them to condemn other people through the government when its only their religious beliefs.
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Old 02-25-2004   #94
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

the truth is, there is too much "odd" stuff going around too....like for instance, take that guy who came out and publicly said that Bush had had plans for taking Iraq three months before the 9/11 tragedy. Why had he thought about that that long ago...and then the guy says that is claim was mistaken and you never hear of him again....then again if my life and/or family was threatened in ways i never even knew of...i might take back my claim too-i mean, maybe i'm just being paranoid....but i have to wonder. also, it's been pointed out that the economy isn't doing that bad (hence we get the typical, "things are getting better, ya know, they're picking up and it's not Bush's fault...)yeah, well, if the "magical shoe inspector" inspects your shoes once a month...of course you shime them for that one day and then you'll let them get as dirty as you want...why the hell should you care if they're dirty for the rest of the month....just like i can guarantee that the economy not going to be "picking up" once GW is back in office. personally, i think ought to tell these greedy politicians to buzz off and have a new system of government....it's called democracy.....with computers....is there no reason we the people of the United States shouldn't vote on ALL issues and have a branch of government to do only what we TELL them to do....yes the people in control...as it was meant to be...of course.....i hate to destroy this utopian dream....but i'm certain that some sort of corruption through media or some "secret" branch of the government would probably wipe it away.....alas, nothing more than a dream...but hey, hobbit in the shire who's too small to understand the world can dream....right?
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Old 02-25-2004   #95
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

Quote:
Originally Said by verilon
That's a bad stance to take, but it is the right one, as far as I am concerned. I'm not not voting for Bush simply because of the gay marriages but also for these:

1- The war on Iraq, which was debunked as reasonable before it began
2- The drop in the economy (belive it or not, Clinton helped the economy incredibly)
3- The fact that Republican economic policy is designed to help the rich before the poor
4- The fact that Democratic economic policy does the opposite
5- The opposition to gay marriage
6- The opposition to legalised abortions
7- The fact that we could have had a war with North Korea - something we did not and do not need
8- The fact that he thinks the religious right are correct
9- The fact that if we keep Bush in power, there will be more and more religious influence in a nation whose principles are anything but
10- The fact that there is anything but a semblance of equality throughout this nation

Plus several other things that I can't think of at the moment.
1.I've used this one before, I don't know if it was here,though. Chamberlin, the Prime Minister of England before Winston Churchill said that Hitler was a dangerous man and that he should be watched in the future. Although Hitler didn't have an iminent threat at the moment, we all know what happened during Churchill's administration. Perhaps in the future Hussein could have been as bad as Hitler.
2.Actually, the economy runs in about ten year cycles of ups and downs. If you look at a graph of it through the centur, you'll notice the pattern. Right now the economy is on the rise. Furthermore, the big drop int the economy happed on 9-11. We all know what was in the WTCs: buisnesses. Big ones. And with their major offices destroyed, these companies went bankrupt which then hit the economy hard. And then after 9-11, people were afraid to fly. Some airlines (I'm not sure which) nearly went bankrupt! That hit the economy hard as well.
3 and 4.Do you notice that on airplanes there are those signs showing a parent putting on their oxygen before putting on their children? Well this is the same case. Help yourself before you ca help others. Part of this belief of helping the rich is that the rich would tend more to invest money in stock, therefore helping our economy.
5.That's a whole 'nother debate, so let's not go into it here.
6.This goes down to your personal beliefs, like gay marriage, so we'll leave it to the abortion thread.
7.I doubt that we ever would have had a war with North Korea, what with the war in Iraq and all.
8.He's religious, so what? He's concerned for his faith, just like any Christian. What don't you like about the religious right? (Other than your opposition to what we believe)
9.How are our principles non-religious? On the contrary, most all of our laws are derived from older governments which get their laws from the Bible.
10.I understand where you are comming from on this one, but the principle of democracy is not that everyone has equal right. It's that everyone has their inaliable rights and that everyone has an equal say in the government.

While I understand that these are your beliefs I feel that I need to defend my point of view.

Quote:
Originally Said by Guttermouth
In addition to Verilon's post, I'd just like to add that in one term Bush has:

1) Cut medicaid drastically, robbing millions of children of proper medical care
2) Destroyed the medicare increase Clinton had in line, slashing it to a shade of what it was supposed to be, fooling the American public into believing he helped medicare patients.
3) Decreased federal financial aid
4) Decreased taxes for the rich minority
5) Alienated women by passing the partial birth abortion ban

Ugh. Who wants to see what he's capable of in the next four years? Not me...
1.Raised medicare drastically, helping millions of elderly people get the medical treatments that they need.
2.Incorrect. He helped madicare lots.
3.To whom or what.
4.Look up to my reasonings to Ver's post.
5.He did not alienate women, he just signed a bill (Passed by Congress, so your blame cannot solely be on him) that says that women cannot murder their babies. I think a lot of people agree with me on this one.
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Old 02-25-2004   #96
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

Quote:
Originally Said by Bleed Black
1.I've used this one before, I don't know if it was here,though. Chamberlin, the Prime Minister of England before Winston Churchill said that Hitler was a dangerous man and that he should be watched in the future. Although Hitler didn't have an iminent threat at the moment, we all know what happened during Churchill's administration. Perhaps in the future Hussein could have been as bad as Hitler.
Evidence?

Quote:
2.Actually, the economy runs in about ten year cycles of ups and downs. If you look at a graph of it through the centur, you'll notice the pattern. Right now the economy is on the rise. Furthermore, the big drop int the economy happed on 9-11. We all know what was in the WTCs: buisnesses. Big ones. And with their major offices destroyed, these companies went bankrupt which then hit the economy hard. And then after 9-11, people were afraid to fly. Some airlines (I'm not sure which) nearly went bankrupt! That hit the economy hard as well.
He's a Republican.. Granted, yet, the economy is on the rise. But guess what it's because of? WAR.

Quote:
3 and 4.Do you notice that on airplanes there are those signs showing a parent putting on their oxygen before putting on their children? Well this is the same case. Help yourself before you ca help others. Part of this belief of helping the rich is that the rich would tend more to invest money in stock, therefore helping our economy.
A quick fix, yes, but it doesn't do well for the majority in the long term, as opposed to Democratic policy.

Quote:
5.That's a whole 'nother debate, so let's not go into it here.
6.This goes down to your personal beliefs, like gay marriage, so we'll leave it to the abortion thread.
Ok, then.

Quote:
7.I doubt that we ever would have had a war with North Korea, what with the war in Iraq and all.
-blinks- I was in New Mexico at the time of the talks. We very well could have.

Quote:
8.He's religious, so what? He's concerned for his faith, just like any Christian. What don't you like about the religious right? (Other than your opposition to what we believe)
I don't like that the religious right are extremists. Furthermore, he's religious, big deal, whoopdedoo, I couldn't care less. What I DO care about is the Separation of Church and State.

Quote:
9.How are our principles non-religious? On the contrary, most all of our laws are derived from older governments which get their laws from the Bible.
Wrong. If that were so, then the FIRST amendment we have to the Constitution wouldn't allow for freedom of religion. We don't need the Bible to set moralistic views.

Quote:
10.I understand where you are comming from on this one, but the principle of democracy is not that everyone has equal right. It's that everyone has their inaliable rights and that everyone has an equal say in the government.
Right.. but not everyone has equak rights. There is gender discrimination in marriage rights.

Quote:
1.Raised medicare drastically, helping millions of elderly people get the medical treatments that they need.
The elderly are not the only ones in need of medicare.

Quote:
2.Incorrect. He helped madicare lots.
Show.

Quote:
3.To whom or what.
Financial aid could mean either school funding for college students, or could mean financial aid in the same venue as medicare, food stamps, etc.

Quote:
5.He did not alienate women, he just signed a bill (Passed by Congress, so your blame cannot solely be on him) that says that women cannot murder their babies. I think a lot of people agree with me on this one.
This I do agree with. Partial birth abortions are illegal because the babies, by that time, can survive independently of the mother.
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Old 02-25-2004   #97
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

I am a bit confused. I do not like Bush as far as I have been reading lately. And that mostly has to do with gay marriage ban and dividing people because of sexuality.

I asked my mom who she was going to vote for, and she said Bush. I asked her why, and she said because he has done more for our country in the past four years than any republican? has done in several. And her boyfriend says the same thing. He says he is going to vote for Bush too.

But I thought Bush has just made things worse? I don't want to argue with them, if they are wrong, but what is the truth?
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Old 02-25-2004   #98
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

They're voting for Bush because he's done more than any other Republican? They aren't even considering what the Democrats have done or could do?? Yes, he's done more than most Republicans.. more damage..
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Old 02-25-2004   #99
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

Verilon, I don't know which party they said. They said the opposing party to Bush. I am not sure what it is. They said he has done more than the opposing party has done in several years. I read what you said about him. But is all this stuff actual facts, or just generalized opinions?
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Old 02-25-2004   #100
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Re: Re-elect Bush ?

Macster said:
personally, i think ought to tell these greedy politicians to buzz off and have a new system of government....it's called democracy.....with computers....is there no reason we the people of the United States shouldn't vote on ALL issues and have a branch of government to do only what we TELL them to do....yes the people in control...as it was meant to be...of course.

Me: Actually, the Founding Fathers did not want the people in control. They didn't trust the people. And, to be honest, I wouldn't trust the general public to be informed enough to make decisions for the country.

Our country was never intended to be a democracy. It's a republic.

Constitution (which never uses the word democracy):
Article IV, Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

James Madison:
... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths

And one more by Thomas Jefferson, this one about Christianity and our government:
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."(in a letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814.)
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