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Old 10-08-2012   #1
Pittielynn
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Stem Cell Discovery will allow Gay Men to create their own eggs for surrogate birth

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Recent findings by a group of Scientists from the Kyoto University Institute for Integrated Cell-Material Sciences (iCeMS) have taken the Scientific World by storm, and this has raised numerous questions about the findings, and the potential uses and abuses.

This discovery will allow gay men to create an egg of their own, not having to use a donated egg from a female donor, thereby allowing creation of a child born with both parents DNA, not just the DNA of one of the men and the DNA from the egg donor, as is currently the case. This finding has the potential to invigorate the LGBT community, and whispers of its use in this manner are already beginning.

The Japanese research team, led by Mitinori Saitou of Kyoto University in Japan, said that they had finally attained their seemingly insurmountable objective, creating eggs from embryonic stem cells, as well as producing eggs that will become healthy offspring.

The most astonishing part of the discovery was that the bio-engineered eggs were the fertilized in-vitro with sperm created from stem cells as well, and then implanted in the mice.

The resulting pregnancy produced healthy mice, and so far, this accomplishment is a rousing success.
Full Article.

Men: As soon as they figured out they had a part in babymaking, they take over society. Then they decide to find a way to eliminate women out of the process completely.
I recognize and support what a discovery like this means for Gay men across the world but I also can't help but look at the cultural implications for women from a feminist perspective... Like the article states: "If Scientists ever discover a way to create a viable womb that eliminates the need for a womens uterus, it would be a shocking discovery, one that may lead us down a path of no return."

Moreover, the fact that this discovery is coming from a country that is well-known for gender inequality really doesn't make me feel good about this at all...

I am extremely concerned with the implications a discovery like this might have on women the value of the miracle of natural conception and birth in the future.

Am I the only one who is unsettled by this?
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Old 10-08-2012   #2
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Re: Stem Cell Discovery will allow Gay Men to create their own eggs for surrogate bir

Ahem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PLvdmifDSk



Particularly, "your scientists were so preoccupied whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should."

My word, that quote applies... so much to human behavior.




Seriously, that is concerning, for all the reasons you said, Pittielynn. "Concerning" might be a bit of an understatement...
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Old 10-08-2012   #3
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Re: Stem Cell Discovery will allow Gay Men to create their own eggs for surrogate bir

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Originally Said by Zanahoria_Picante View Post
Particularly, "your scientists were so preoccupied whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should."

My word, that quote applies... so much to human behavior.




Seriously, that is concerning, for all the reasons you said, Pittielynn. "Concerning" might be a bit of an understatement...
Zana!!! You're alive!! ;)

You're right about the quote you posted. Completely right. I couldn't have said it better myself.

"Concerning" most certainly is an uderstatement. When I read this my mind jumped to the image of a world in which women exist solely for sexual pleasure and the population of said world is left to a laboratory with endless corridors filled with artificial wombs to grow fetuses in them. Once the baby is mature, a scientist simply cuts open the womb and voila! One freshly unrapped baby.

Extreme, I know, but lets face it; that vision is also entirely possible. With the ability to make eggs and grow them without women, this patriarchal world would only need to keep women around for sexual pleasure and for nursing the scientifically enginered babies. And even then, there's always formula...

Soylent Green, anyone? Women make excellent furniture...
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Old 10-08-2012   #4
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Re: Stem Cell Discovery will allow Gay Men to create their own eggs for surrogate bir

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Originally Said by Pittielynn View Post
"Concerning" most certainly is an uderstatement. When I read this my mind jumped to the image of a world in which women exist solely for sexual pleasure and the population of said world is left to a laboratory with endless corridors filled with artificial wombs to grow fetuses in them. Once the baby is mature, a scientist simply cuts open the womb and voila! One freshly unrapped baby.

Extreme, I know, but lets face it; that vision is also entirely possible. With the ability to make eggs and grow them without women, this patriarchal world would only need to keep women around for sexual pleasure and for nursing the scientifically enginered babies. And even then, there's always formula...
I sincerely doubt implementing this new find will lead to this scenario. Straight MF relationships are still the majority. Straight men love sex too much to ever let this happen. This may also be said of straight women. Some women rely on their baby-making abilities to survive. (That's a whole different can of worms I care not to open.)

I do, however, agree with the logic that our Dr. Malcolm from Jurassic Park has used. There is not enough information to implement this commercially. This actually isn't entirely new. We already use a similar process in this present age (in vitro fertilization is where "test tube babies" come from). However, there are some unresolved issues even from that:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ction-genetics

Still, in this day and age public outcry may not be enough to stop this from happening.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexpe.../films/babies/
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Old 10-08-2012   #5
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Re: Stem Cell Discovery will allow Gay Men to create their own eggs for surrogate bir

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Originally Said by Nami View Post
I sincerely doubt implementing this new find will lead to this scenario. Straight MF relationships are still the majority. Straight men love sex too much to ever let this happen. This may also be said of straight women. Some women rely on their baby-making abilities to survive. (That's a whole different can of worms I care not to open.)
I do recognize how extreme that scenario is but the fact that science is finding ways to eliminate women from the babymaking process is extremely unsettling for the feminist in me. Though I see the value, I also see the possible - negative - social implications. I don't like that scientists often fail to look at said implications because they are too focussed on the scientific "benefits." However, like many things, just because you can doesn't mean you should.
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Old 10-08-2012   #6
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Re: Stem Cell Discovery will allow Gay Men to create their own eggs for surrogate bir

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Originally Said by Pittielynn View Post
Zana!!! You're alive!! ;)

You're right about the quote you posted. Completely right. I couldn't have said it better myself.

"Concerning" most certainly is an uderstatement. When I read this my mind jumped to the image of a world in which women exist solely for sexual pleasure and the population of said world is left to a laboratory with endless corridors filled with artificial wombs to grow fetuses in them. Once the baby is mature, a scientist simply cuts open the womb and voila! One freshly unrapped baby.

Extreme, I know, but lets face it; that vision is also entirely possible. With the ability to make eggs and grow them without women, this patriarchal world would only need to keep women around for sexual pleasure and for nursing the scientifically enginered babies. And even then, there's always formula...

Soylent Green, anyone? Women make excellent furniture...
Have you read Brave New World by Aldous Huxley? That concept is part of the premise of the book; people being grown, rather than naturally reproducing, in a rather horrific and coldly systematic matter. However, I imagine if this process--men vicariously creating lab babies, essentially--there would be more love and compassion in the process than as posed by science fiction, but I don't think that detracts from the dangers of interfering in processes that we don't fully understand, probably will never fully understand, and with which we neither have the authority or wisdom to interfere.

That's the presently-abridged and -hurried version of my thoughts on this. :)
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Old 10-08-2012   #7
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Re: Stem Cell Discovery will allow Gay Men to create their own eggs for surrogate bir

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Full Article.

Men: As soon as they figured out they had a part in babymaking, they take over society.
Oh no! Funk was right all the time! Soon being heterosexual will be outlawed if a homosexual makes it into the white house.

I'll have to read the article later but I don't think that such a thing will change very much in society. Maybe it's even a chance for couples who can't have an offspring because of whatever reason?
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Old 10-09-2012   #8
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Re: Stem Cell Discovery will allow Gay Men to create their own eggs for surrogate bir

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Originally Said by Nami View Post
This actually isn't entirely new. We already use a similar process in this present age (in vitro fertilization is where "test tube babies" come from). However, there are some unresolved issues even from that:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ction-genetics

Still, in this day and age public outcry may not be enough to stop this from happening.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexpe.../films/babies/
That. The first thing, in vitro fertilization was the second thing that came to mind. After the Ian Malcolm reference.

Yes, in a way, we're practically already performing the same process for women who have difficulty conceiving. But as you say, even that begs questions and concerns.

*Reading the article in full*

Aside from the grammatical error in the second paragraph...

Reading through this, I shake my head... and not necessarily at the grammatical error in the eighth paragraph. Sloppy writing much?

Gah.

From the article: "As with all things, this discovery is not a question of if, only when."

And the rape continues.

Yet... it's true. Anything man sets his mind to he can and will accomplish, quite often without consideration to morality or assorted, impossible-to-predict negative consequences.

Quite frankly, we have no business meddling with things beyond our capacity to understand. It's one thing to create and expand the reach of digital technology; it's quite another to tinker with genetics, particularly with human genetics. I just think the dangers here--the unanswered questions, again, the impossible-to-know ramifications of these pursuits--outweigh the benefits, to put it lightly, and there are better, less invasive and more natural, ways to accomplish the same result.

I can't help but insert a C.S. Lewis quote here:

"We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive."

I do think we're on the wrong road here. Or rather, I believe we have been on a wrong road, as people, for a long, long... long time, and this is just one example of contemporary society's sharp turn down a much darker road. Our self-destruction is almost as certain as our inability or unwillingness to see it.

...To put it nicely.

Let's just say, I view the test tube as half-empty.
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Old 10-11-2012   #9
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Re: Stem Cell Discovery will allow Gay Men to create their own eggs for surrogate bir

Not only do these little mice survive: they can reproduce on their own! How cool is that? I wonder if they can reverse-engineer sperm cells in the same way...

Ahem, anyway.

I'm surprised the focus is on gay men (who still lack a womb for any fertilized egg), and not on women who have lost their ovaries (PCOS?) and want children, or women who are over 35 (and are more likely to have damaged/non-viable eggs) but want children. I feel that this is very similar to IVF in that it provides an opportunity to those who want it. The objections about ethics remain the same, though, in that multiple embryos will be created and not all used and the traditional Catholic argument about separating sex and reproduction.

Personally? I'd use this technology to bring back the Northern White Rhinos, whose few remaining females are no longer of reproductive age but whose close cousins the White Rhinos are plentiful and could carry embryos.

As far as feminist concerns go: women have more value in society than just their eggs. Artificial eggs cannot replace women.
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Old 10-12-2012   #10
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Re: Stem Cell Discovery will allow Gay Men to create their own eggs for surrogate bir

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Personally? I'd use this technology to bring back the Northern White Rhinos, whose few remaining females are no longer of reproductive age but whose close cousins the White Rhinos are plentiful and could carry embryos.


If only Lonesome George could have hung on just a little while longer. :\
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