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Old 03-15-2003   #1
r3zin420
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Seriously

Im in this sociology class and we have been talking about racisim and discrimination. Statistics show that 71.3% of the united states is white, african americans make up 12.8% of the population, latino's 11.4%, Pacific Islanders 3.7%, and American Indians 0.8%. According to sociological defanitions, discrimination can only be inflected by the dominant group twords the subordinant group. In this case the "whites" are the dominant group and the only ones who are capable of discriminating in a sociological perspective. Im not talking about indivudal discrimination, im refering to discrimination as a whole. So my question to you is, do you think whites are discriminated against in todays society?
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Old 03-15-2003   #2
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an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

Looks like a good definition to me.

Doesn't say anything about which group has more people.

P.S. 90% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Also, of course white's are discriminated against. Every race is discriminated against in some respect, big or small. That doesn't mean its as much a problem as discrimination against blacks etc..

This is a "shades of grey" argument.
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Old 03-15-2003   #3
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I understand that, but according to my book "sociology in our times" by Diana Kendall, discrimination is defined as: Actions or practices of dominant group members that have a harmful impact on members of a subordinate group.(Feagin and Feagin, 1999) And the statistics were taken from the U.S. Bureau of the Census 1999. I personally dont agree with what the book says, basicaly that it is imposiable for whites to be discriminated against. Im just trying to put together a reputable argument for class.
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Old 03-15-2003   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by r3zin420
Im just trying to put together a reputable argument for class.
Ahh, the truth comes out

basically I think there's no such thing as reverse discrimination, only forward discrimination.

Maybe someone with a little more understanding than me can provide some insight.
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Old 03-15-2003   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Weasel


Ahh, the truth comes out

basically I think there's no such thing as reverse discrimination, only forward discrimination.

Maybe someone with a little more understanding than me can provide some insight.

According to my african studies professor, there is no reverse discrimination. Oh - and the white man is the devil.
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Old 03-15-2003   #6
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haha.
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Old 03-15-2003   #7
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Ok, do you think its fair that black colleges black fraternaties are accepted in society?
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Old 03-15-2003   #8
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Yeah, why shouldn't they be allowed, accepted, coexisted with? Are they famous for discrimination or something? I acknowledge the fact that being all-black is discrimiation in its most classic definition, but there is lots of discrimination like that in our society.
THe federal government banned the use of "seperate but equal" facilities and abhors discrimination of a one-race organization, but those laws cannot be practically enforced. There are lots of organizations that in reality are strictly white (how about the presidency?), so why shouldn't there be strictly black organizations?
I suppose that allowing these organization promotes the growth of discrimination in our society. Give me some feedback on this.
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Old 03-15-2003   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by r3zin420
I understand that, but according to my book "sociology in our times" by Diana Kendall, discrimination is defined as: Actions or practices of dominant group members that have a harmful impact on members of a subordinate group.(Feagin and Feagin, 1999) And the statistics were taken from the U.S. Bureau of the Census 1999. I personally dont agree with what the book says, basicaly that it is imposiable for whites to be discriminated against. Im just trying to put together a reputable argument for class.
For another professional description and explanation of discrimination, check out "World On Fire", Amy Chua http://www.salon.com/books/review/2003/01/13/democracy/

Rule #1: Statistics are funded - no one gathers them in a significant manner for free. They must serve a specific purpose and be accepted by someone who will foot the bill for doing all the work involved in gathering, organizing and analyzing statistics. Then there's the "weakest link" factor, i.e., no one is perfect and at some point during the fact gathering process there will be failures of various kinds. That's what double blind studies are supposed to help prevent, but even they are not immune. At some point, if not several, INDIVIDUAL OPINION of those gathering, organizing and analyzing facts into statistical representations will color or taint results.

An experiment proving how true that is, would be to perform the exact same study, say three times, simply using different people.
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Old 03-15-2003   #10
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Yum. A pet peeve. Here's something I posted on another board on this subject some time ago.

Quote:
Today I had to complete a form requiring 'Hispanic, black or caucasian' be noted, and 'other' was not an option.

Me: "What is this information used for?"

Form Person: "Ohhhhh, that's just reported for census information to help identify what groups may be able to utilize specific areas of assistance in the future."

Me: "Ohhhhh. What if I'm very mixed?"

Form Person: "Well, are you closest to Hispanic, black or caucasian?"

Me: "None of the above. Sorry? What do you suggest?"

Form Person: "Ok. What primary ethnic group do you belong to?"

Me: "That's hard to say. Really. My parents were Dutch, Scot, English, Black South African, Irish, Swedish, Sioux Indian and Norwegian. You understand my dilemma?"

Form Person: "Yes, I do." Thinks. "You could just check caucasian."

Me: "Reeeally? I'm very surprised, to be honest. How bizarre if that is true, because if people allow themselves to be incorrectly categorized it would imply there is a tremendous amount of incorrect census data out there, wouldn't you agree?

Form Person: "We've never really had this problem before." Thinks. Thinks. (Silence is wonderful.)

Me: "I'm open to suggestions."

Form Person: "What religion are you?"

Me: "Now why would that matter and isn't that bordering on discrimination?"

Form Person: "Well, you know how mostly Baptists are white people and so forth." Looks at me and waits.

Me: "No, I had no idea! Unbelievable!" I laugh a little, consciously trying to control my eyes' sudden urge to roll. "That may be because I haven't been to church in 30 years except for the occasional wedding or funeral though."

Form Person: "Ohhhhhh. Well, what holidays do you practice?"

Me: "None."

Form Person: "I think if I were you I would just put the obvious."

Me: "What does that mean?"

Form Person: "No offense, but you do look rather white so you could just check caucasian."

Me: "Wouldn't that prevent me from obtaining future assistance according to my ethnic origins? And it sure wouldn't be accurate for census data, you think?" (I didn't create special interest groups, but since they're there, hey!)

Form Person: "I really don't know what to say. Let me ask my supervisor. I'm sure he can help."

Me: Draws box on form, captions it "Other" and checks new box. Above and around box, writes all ethnic backgrounds. Form Person returns and I tell her nevermind. I figured it out. We proceed with Form Person assuming I checked caucasian. I don't usually get that far with someone. I had to stop it 'cause I had the impression she would have found a way to keep up and even I didn't have that much spare time within this 24-hour period.
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Old 03-15-2003   #11
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One more comment (this IS a pet peeve, fair warning noted above). Is there a reason that the US, being founded as a melting pot, should not continue as a melting pot? Was a single religion, race or creed subscribed to wholely, once a person chose to live on this continent?

Aside from removing natives' rights, were anyone elses' rights dictated by other than capitalism, entrepreneurs and the generally lion-hearted? Someone recently told me how the Irish are still discriminated against just as much as black people are. Wow. That one took a lot of homework. Check our list of Irish presidents:

Quote:
1 Andrew Jackson, 7th President 1829-37

2 James Knox Polk, 11th President 1845-49

3 James Buchanan, 15th President 1857-61

4 Ulysses S Grant, 18th President 1869-77

5 Chester Alan Arthur, 21st President 1881-85

6 Grover Cleveland, 22nd and 24th President 1885-89, 1893-97

7 William McKinley, 25th President 1897-1901

8 Woodrow Wilson, 28th President 1913-21

9 John Fitzgerald Kennedy, 35th President 1961-63

10 Lyndon Baines Johnson, 36th President 1963-69

11 Richard Milhous Nixon, 37th President 1969-74

12 James Earl Carter, 39th President 1977-81

13 Ronald Wilson Reagan, 40th President 1981-89

14 George Herbert Walker Bush, 41st President 1989-93

15 William Jefferson Clinton, 42nd President 1993-2001

16 George W Bush, 43rd President 2001-present

courtesy http://homepage.tinet.ie/~seanjmurphy/dir/pres.htm
Second, is there a reason why non-indigenous cultures are supposed to give up their religion, color (bwwwhahaaaaa!) or culture because they live in America - Home of the Free and the Brave? I've spoken with Asian Americans, Eastern Americans and Native Americans who believe one of the only ways to retain integrity and not lose their culture is to keep it alive however possible.

Possibly a poor analogy, but it's not a small stretch to compare this situation to animal activists protecting the bald eagle and countless other mammals. I suppose only the human race is hypocritical and idiotic enough to behave as if only non-human mammals deserve that privilege and support?

Something truly magnificent occurred with the advent of motorized vehicles. "Rules of the road". They allow anyone from anywhere driving a vehicle to get anywhere they want as long as some very simple rules are followed regarding traffic signals and driving courtesies. How strange non of those rules hurts anyone, eh?
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Old 03-16-2003   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lockjaw
Yeah, why shouldn't they be allowed, accepted, coexisted with? Are they famous for discrimination or something? I acknowledge the fact that being all-black is discrimiation in its most classic definition, but there is lots of discrimination like that in our society.
THe federal government banned the use of "seperate but equal" facilities and abhors discrimination of a one-race organization, but those laws cannot be practically enforced. There are lots of organizations that in reality are strictly white (how about the presidency?), so why shouldn't there be strictly black organizations?
I suppose that allowing these organization promotes the growth of discrimination in our society. Give me some feedback on this.

I agree that one-race organazitions do promote discrimination and seperation. Did you know that Tiger Woods is still not allowed to play at some courses in the U.S.? I realize that the black man has been discriminated against in this country ever since this "great nation" was founded, but I dont understand why discrimination twords white people is overlooked and even laughed at. Take the movie Under Cover Brother. Funny, right? Hell, I liked it. But think how it would have went if the race roles in the movie were reversed. Would it still have been funny? Take Chris Rock, or Martin Lawrence, or any other black comidiens who make fun of white people. Its funny, yes, and I dont see anything wrong with it. I just dont understand why its taboo for a white man to do the same twords black. Then it becomes "racist". Its ok to have an all black college in todays society, but not an all white college? I dont understand it. I guesse Rodney King said it best..."Can't we all just get along.."
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Old 03-17-2003   #13
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r3zin420, those are my sentiments exactly. It's pretty hard to find a perfect solution to this discrimination dilemma. But then again, "if it ain't broke don't fix it."
Do you consider the situation "broken"?
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Old 03-18-2003   #14
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Unfortunally, yes. I was recently in an altercation simply because I was white. I was in the wrong part of town, and well, I paid for it. I dont hold any grudges tho, it has to end somewhere. The whole system's fucked up. Probably allways will be. I'm not one who's proud of his heritage. It wasnt my choice to be white. Im proud of my achievments.
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