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Old 06-03-2013   #18
Zanahoria_Picante
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Re: 77 Non-Religious Reasons to Support Natural/Organic One Woman-One Man Marriage...

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Originally Said by Comrade Marx View Post
Yes you completely missed the point, What I am saying is that everyone in the world has free will and human rights. People use the bible as a weapon to prove that homosexuality is wrong. Well I am using the same bible to show that God and Jesus promoted human rights and free will. And if you think that is false, then I do not know what kind of bible you have been reading. We as a society need to change our thinking.
The point is the Bible does not promote sinful behavior and homosexuality is one of *many* things described as sinful behavior. The Bible does not promote "human rights" as in political or civil freedoms (though the Jews initially believed that was Jesus' purpose in his ministry on earth, that is a human idea); what it promotes is uprightness according to God's word; if anything, it promotes restraint and abstinence, certainly from forms of sexual behavior that deviate from God's design. To argue that the Bible promotes homosexuality or the pursuit of forms of marriage which deviate from God's design... does not really work.

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What I brought up about Moses and Egypt was evidence to show that bible says its okay to rebel against oppression. Now are gay people being forced into hard labour because they are gay, No. But we are taking way their rights and freedoms. So activists are "rebelling" against the government and society because of an injustice.
I did get that. I just don't think the comparison, or the point it is meant to argue, works. Even if there were perfect parallels (which, really, there aren't at all) it is illogical to say that the Bible promotes rebellion against God's laws--homosexuality being one of *many* examples of such deviation. Furthermore, that "rebellion" from Egypt was entirely orchestrated by God from the "oppression" of the ungodly; whereas the "freedom from oppression" that you describe involves direct deviation from God's laws. I see what you are trying to do with this comparison, but it makes very little sense to say that a story within the Bible promotes rebellion from the "oppression" of the moral laws also contained within the Bible. Besides all that, "freedom from political oppression" was only one part of the story of the Jews' exodus; the point was Moses' and the Jews' obedience to God freed them. (Later, they rebelled against God... and they were punished.)

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So go a head a quote a bunch of bible gibberish that means nothing to me, because in the end were both quoting from a book that is full of hypocrisy and nonsense. Here is some other nonsense
Well, you won't gain much looking at it that way; you won't gain much looking at anything that way. While I fundamentally disagree with about 95% of people on this forum (and state my objections, as I have as much right as anyone to do, in this country, for the time being) I quite enjoy hearing about and trying to understand (sympathize with and attain a deeper knowledge of) their views and I do my best to respect them as people, as with anyone, and treat them with Christian love. If I fail at that, it might be because I am, well, a human being with flaws. That doesn't excuse inconsistency, but it's bound to happen.

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Exodus 21:20-21
If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

So its okay to savagely beat a servant or your slave as long as they don't die from the beating.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24:
If a betrothed virgin is raped in the city and doesn't cry out loud enough, then "the men of the city shall stone her to death."

So in this case if I gag and rape a virgin in the city I live in, She gets killed because she didn't scream loud enough

So in other words according to the bible its okay for us to kill rape victims and beat your slaves. But its wrong to allow people to be gay or allow gay people to marry.
I will cover this in my response to foxy, as all of these verses and the verses she quoted fall under the same explanation.

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Oh yeah and if Jesus was brought to earth to represent his father, God. Then that means Jesus follows God`s commands. So that mean Jesus did
promote human rights and free will

Genesis 1:27
Because of this, man has a certain dignity and was given dominion over the rest of creation`
Again, that isn't really the point; Jesus came to promote His kingdom, salvation, and love which, if anything, means the freedom to follow Him as God originally intended before man's first disobedience, not freedom to disobey him.

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"As for human rights as it is meant in this context, to me it seems Jesus saw past politics"

Since when has human rights been exclusively a political matter? Last I checked we have many religious figures that promote human rights today. Human rights is not political, it can be traced to something very basic to when we were all little kids in school

"Treat others how you would liked to be different"
While it's true that the "golden rule" is a Biblical notion, that still isn't really human rights, but okay; human rights, by definition, has to do with civil freedoms more than anything else.

Even if that concept did apply, it does not logically follow that that means promoting rights which involve disobedience of God's word.

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So go ahead and cling to that relic and revolve your life around it but don't push it on others. It holds us back from moving humanity forward. I don't need a book to tell me what's right and what's wrong I can see that pretty damn clear.

Hmmm. Okay.

As for that long-haired individual you quoted, by that logic, wouldn't it follow that if he wanted to rape and murder people, it would be morally sound, as he forms his own morality? ;)

If the expression of different viewpoints and the disagreement that naturally follows is now seen as "pushing views on others," then something is truly amiss with the world. Perhaps only people who agree should speak to each other. (But I really don't want that. Do you?)
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Zanahoria_Picante

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Last edited by Zanahoria_Picante; 06-03-2013 at 01:21 AM.
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